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I believe you are completely right Gerry_; so many people make such a big deal out of this. Besides, how fast should you be going during a taxi or after touch down to really make this an issue?
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I have two aircraft in my fleet which are both 4-channel planes. They are both high-wing trainer-type aircraft. One is a .40 sized nitro that I upgraded to .60 which I use for training others. The other one is my FPV aircraft. Even though both have ailerons, I generally fly them around using rudder control, and I use the ailerons to compensate for the undesired roll which occurs when holding constant rudder. The reason I fly this way is mostly preference. I like my turns to have a shallower bank angle, because it looks more realistic, especially when I am flying FPV and have an in-the-cockpit view. My HD in-flight videos look better with a shallower banking angle. In addition, most RC pilots don't realize that the bank angles they use when turning are effective, yet highly unrealistic-looking and extreme when compared to full-sized planes. (This is fact. I fly full-sized aircraft, too) Based on your argument, I would venture to guess that you do not use rudder at all when performing a coordinated turn. To me, that is "wrong flying method". Agreed. |
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You are making the mistake of thinking about flight in terms of control surfaces instead of aircraft behavior. I'm not going to rehash it. Suffice it to say I want my students to learn how to control aircraft behavior, not how to operate surfaces. So, I will continue to use the rudder on right stick method with three channel planes and you can't stop me
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It makes zero sense. |
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Really? That statement is nonsense. To teach a beginner the fundamentals of flight from the beginning is essential, in my opinion.
Anybody can learn from a simulator to operate the controls around to keep an airplane pointed away from the earth and in the air, but if you eventually want to advance beyond the eternal novice ranking, a person should at some point learn the difference between a rudder and an aileron. When I was in the USAF, the first terms we learned were aileron, rudder, elevator, thrust, drag, pitch, yaw, angle of attack, high-speed-stall, etc. That was before we even touched the controls of an aircraft. If your aileron control all of a sudden gives out (anyone who has NOT had an in-flight servo failure please leave the room, you have not been flying long enough to have a valid opinion here), it will be very helpful for you to know what a rudder does, where it is located, and how to rely on it instead of your malfunctioning ailerons. To have practiced flying a plane using only rudder control (on the left) is even better. I learned rc flying on a 4-channel trainer that I built myself, and within 4 hours I was taking off and landing without any help. Also, the first time I stepped into a real aircraft I was 16. It was a Cessna, and I was in the left seat. After the instructor showed me where the throttle was, I was able to take off and fly around with no help from him at all, and I would have landed it fine, IMHO, but he took the controls at the last moment to ensure a perfect flare. Of course, I learned all the fundamentals from books in the months before all this, back when the Internet was known as ARPANET, and there was no such thing as $100 EPO RTF trainers. It took me 6 months to build my first trainer from balsa wood in 1984, and you better believe I knew the difference between a rudder and an aileron before that thing left the ground! |
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Last edited by glassdogangle; Sep 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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P.S. Both speeds can easily cause damage to a plane if wrong control input is given. |
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Except, my students are not in the freekin Air Force, they are flying RC. I teach what they need to know. I understand your logic, I just don't agree with it.
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Gerry-
Apparently I cannot reply to you directly because rcgroups is telling me you have violated forums rules. What did you do? Anyway, by teaching a beginner to use the left stick to turn with the rudder on a 3-channel plane (and having the right stick control elevator only), does not cause problems down the road, just because you add a 4th channel on the right stick to control ailerons. A rudder roll is not a "true roll" if there is such a thing. It will resemble something more along the lines of a barrel roll. If you want to get into 3D flying or pattern flying, to do a true perfect axis roll, you must use ailerons. So, a beginner who first flies on a 3-channel aircraft, and uses the left stick for throttle and rudder (rudder controls steering on ground and also controls banking in-flight due to having a high dihedral), and uses the right stick for elevator only, will have no issues at all if, say, he adds ailerons to his current trainer and links those surfaces to the movement of the right control stick. He will still fly as normal, with all the same movements, but hey! What's this? Now if he moves the right stick back and forth, his plane banks and rolls nicer? Cool! |
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One of my beginners is going through the frustrations of having to remember to steer with the left stick now instead of the right, and for him it is causing "ground rolls" and frustration. As for simulators, I have RealFlight 6 and consider it essential for learning Heli 3D, but some beginners don't have this luxury. |
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Man, you are making it way too technical; perhaps that's why your older students are having a hard time. I also trained with RealFlight 6 and jasmine is right..............we ain't in the freaking Airforce. Like I said, I learned on 3 channel planes and always thought of the right stick as directional. Learning to taxi on the ground was a no brainer. BTW - I am in my late 50's. It just isn't that hard................I just don't get why so many make a big deal out of this. It is really confusing too because most instructors I know start a turn with aileron action and coordinate it with rudder for a smoother turn.............now you come in and say the EXACT opposite. No wonder your students are confused!! BTW - I applaud your accomplishments and thank you for your service, but, your method is not necessarily right and ours is not necessarily wrong.
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BTW - the biggest problem with instruction has nothing to do with airplane setup or flying style. The biggest problem with instruction is trying to force people to learn the same way you did, and never considering whether it's appropriate for them. And, probably the second biggest problem is during the actual training, not giving any positive feedback. When you're on the buddy box with someone, 75% of what you say should be "good" and "yes, do that again" - this makes a bigger difference than anything we're talking about here. Many beginners have no problem recognizing when they mess up, and it doesn't help to yell at them when they do, and yet I see a lot of instructors doing that - barking at the student and flipping the switch. |
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