Laws have only controlled honest and sensible people and then not always even them. Fewer, enforced laws are far better than more ignored laws.

If Mr. Obama is so worried about guns, why isn't he concerned with second hand smoke? If he cared about children that much he would give up the pernicious weed and perhaps get a pacifier to suck on.

Originally Posted by n00b-E

Of course I did Norman, if I don't carry here, why would I feel any different about not carrying there? "analogy"......not the best choice of words there.

Would you feel less 'free'?
Would you feel in fear for your families life?
What would be the difference between where you were and living 'at home?

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

in the article, it stated that several states still have yet to submit data to the System for enforcing this. The laws are a joke.

Maybe the problem is a patchwork of local and state laws. Perhaps the solution would be a single set of unified national firearms laws. Heaven forbid, but that is a direction it's headed.

--Bill

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/health...html?hpt=hp_c2

A documented and known crazy purchases guns legally. Shoots mom in chest, cuts her up, barricades house and requires SWAT to end the situation.

so do you mean to tell me that you think keeping guns from this guy would have saved his mothers life?

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

in the article, it stated that several states still have yet to submit data to the System for enforcing this. The laws are a joke.

No. You just agreed that the state wasn't conforming to the law. The law wouldn't be the joke, if the state actually did what was needed to allow proper enforcement.


A documented crazy, does not 'legally purchase' a firearm. He unlawfully purchases it.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Would you feel less 'free'?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Would you feel in fear for your families life?

No, not mine. But I don't now either, even when my firearms aren't close at hand. I do like for my wife to have the ability to protect herself with her pistol, seeing as shes more likely to be targeted than me, especially by rapists.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

What would be the difference between where you were and living 'at home?

My ability to choose to arm myself and my wife would be curtailed.....although on closer examination I should probably feel a little more uneasy if I were over there, seeing as your violent crime rate is ridiculously high.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

It's just the price you pay...

It is.

We pay a pretty hefty price in the US for two civil liberties. Access to guns, and freedom for crazy people.

There are others, but those are the two main ones with respect to the original article in the thread.

Originally Posted by n00b-E

Yes.

Why? All you are doing is fitting into the laws around you - the same as you would be doing in any other country.

No, not mine. But I don't now either, even when my firearms aren't close at hand. I do like for my wife to have the ability to protect herself with her pistol, seeing as shes more likely to be targeted than me, especially by rapists.

But are you living in fear all the time (I don't)? If so, wouldn't it be better to live somewhere 'nicer'? Wouldn't that help your concern for your wife?

My ability to choose to arm myself and my wife would be curtailed.....although on closer examination I should probably feel a little more uneasy if I were over there, seeing as your violent crime rate is ridiculously high.

I'm willing to bet that the crime rate in the area I live in is absolutely nowhere near the level that you guys seem to suggest happens where you are (and also that you seem to think happens everywhere in the UK).

Well... I did lose a couple of rusty tools from my (opened) garage about 10 years ago. And we did have police shoot an armed bank robber (the gang came down from London) about 8 years ago. The only shooting ever - in the 63 years that I have lived in and around the area (it made International news! My sister-in-law heard about it in NZ. That's how astounding it was!)

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Why? All you are doing is fitting into the laws around you - the same as you would be doing in any other country.

Because my ability to choose how to defend myself would be curtailed.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

But are you living in fear all the time (I don't)? If so, wouldn't it be better to live somewhere 'nicer'? Wouldn't that help your concern for your wife?

Who says your country is nicer? Certainly not your violent crime stats. I don't live in fear of her getting shot now, and rapists aren't bound by borders on a map.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

I'm willing to bet that the crime rate in the area I live in is absolutely nowhere near the level that you guys seem to suggest happens where you are (and also that you seem to think happens everywhere in the UK).

Well... I did lose a couple of rusty tools from my (opened) garage about 10 years ago. And we did have police shoot an armed bank robber (the gang came down from London) about 8 years ago. The only shooting ever - in the 63 years that I have lived in and around the area (it made International news! My sister-in-law heard about it in NZ. That's how astounding it was!)

So wait, it's acceptable for you to suggest that everywhere in the US is as bad as Detroit, but not for me to assume your whole country has a horrible rate of violent crime? I've got a bit of news for you Norman, where I live the crime rate is low too, but a few miles north of here it's a different story. And since my wife works where she is often out late and walking to her car in the dark parking lot, it's nice to have piece of mind.

Well, basically you have my sympathy, n00b-E.

I'd hate to generally feel that you have to have the necessity to worry about your safety so often. I don't and I haven't (for which I count my blessings ).

And when I talked about living somewhere nicer I was thinking about you doing so in your own country. Surely it's worth it if you are that concerned with your wife's safety?

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

Maybe the problem is a patchwork of local and state laws. Perhaps the solution would be a single set of unified national firearms laws. Heaven forbid, but that is a direction it's headed.

--Bill

We already have a single set of unified firearms laws... it says that a citizens right to bear arms shall not be infringed. I think we ought to go back to that, and only that. No gun bans at all, no background checks, no registration, no permits ... nothing. You want a gun, go buy what you want.

No before you think I am some nut job, lets think about this. Nothing we have tried has kept guns from crazy people. Nor criminals. Even crazy criminals, with violent criminal backgrounds, have no problem getting an unregistered gun.

Bans on full auto guns are not bans. The rich still can own and shoot them. They are only banned from the law abiding poor. The criminals can still get them.

All these gun laws, do exactly nothing, to take guns out of crazy criminal hands. But, they are quite good at disarming the law abiding citizens.

We, as a population, would have to make some changes though. We would actually have to be polite to each other and start to show a modicum of respect to each other. If you don't know how crazy that guy in front of you is, or what he is armed with, it may be safest for you not to flip him the bird, or try to belittle him in public.

See, we keep encouraging mental abuse. We are so scared of physical abuse, we have huge penalties for the slightest touch. Your kid punches another in the nose, massive penalties. In some schools, that same massive penalty for a handshake. With all the gun laws, we are pretty sure, the other guy is not armed. Further, we think its our right and duty, to mentally abuse and bully anyone we can. Without any fear of physical confrontation. Heck, the teacher can't even step in and move the bully away from the kid being bullied. Nor can the teacher use harsh language, but must ask the bully to please stop bullying.

So, instead of a few bloody lips in school... these kids mentally abuse each other until one cracks. If we suspect, a kid might be suffering, we give him meds, so that he can take even more mental abuse before cracking. As adults, we are worse. We bully, and belittle each other at every opportunity.

Then when someone cracks, and gets a gun that they shouldn't have.... the one that shouldn't have the gun, is the only one with a gun. But, when these people crack, under all the mental abuse they have taken, they plan it out first. They could just as easily get a car, pipe bomb, knife or sword... etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying make the kids duke it out, nor have the teachers spank the kids. I am saying, lets get our kids off the meds, and instead be parents. I am saying, lets treat mental abuse as an equal to physical abuse... if a bully gets socked in the nose, its not the end of the world. I am saying, let people exercise their right to bear arms, uninfringed. If you value your safety, try being polite and showing some respect. Ever wonder why these people target the ones who bullied them and mentally abused them for years? You may even find it prudent to teach your kids to respect each other in school as well.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Well, basically you have my sympathy, n00b-E.

I'd hate to generally feel that you have to have the necessity to worry about your safety so often. I don't and I haven't (for which I count my blessings ).

And when I talked about living somewhere nicer I was thinking about you doing so in your own country. Surely it's worth it if you are that concerned with your wife's safety?

No offense Norman, and I mean that in all sincerity, but you can keep your sympathy, I neither need nor want it. I'm fine, I don't live in fear and neither does my wife. I don't know why you keep ignoring those words every time I type them.

Originally Posted by n00b-E

No offense Norman, and I mean that in all sincerity, but you can keep your sympathy, I neither need nor want it. I'm fine, I don't live in fear and neither does my wife. I don't know why you keep ignoring those words every time I type them.

No offence taken - although I don't know why you seem to have problems with people being sympathetic.

Your words seem to say to different things ("I'm not afraid" and "I wish to be armed in case very bad things happen") which leaves one confused.

(It's rather like saying that you are "in fear" might lose your man card, or summat.. )

I suspect you'll just say that it's being 'prepared' - which also doesn't make sense. No-one prepares in such a way unless one is fearful of something bad happening.

Look, it's your life etc - I was just asking questions to try to figure out how it hangs together. I'm just interested / nosy.

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

Well, basically you have my sympathy, n00b-E.

I'd hate to generally feel that you have to have the necessity to worry about your safety so often. I don't and I haven't (for which I count my blessings ).

And when I talked about living somewhere nicer I was thinking about you doing so in your own country. Surely it's worth it if you are that concerned with your wife's safety?

You might want to consider your wife's safety as well .... The UK has a higher rate of rape per 100000 than here in the US .... At least here we can chose to do something about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Originally Posted by Norman Adlam

No offence taken - although I don't know why you seem to have problems with people being sympathetic.

Your words seem to say to different things ("I'm not afraid" and "I wish to be armed in case very bad things happen") which leaves one confused.

(It's rather like saying that you are "in fear" might lose your man card, or summat.. )

I suspect you'll just say that it's being 'prepared' - which also doesn't make sense. No-one prepares in such a way unless one is fearful of something bad happening.

Look, it's your life etc - I was just asking questions to try to figure out how it hangs together. I'm just interested / nosy.

His reasoning seems to be the same as a person buying a fire extinguisher because they realize there is some chance that a fire could happen. Better safe than sorry is not the same as living in fear. IMO.