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Feb 03, 2009, 11:14 PM
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awrightbrother's Avatar
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Build Log

Messerschmitt Bf 110 from Wowplanes


Hello Pilots,

I had hurt my back over Christmas trying to hang things that tree, and had to lie low, literally on my back for a whole week.

But I have not been totally idle. Here is the first cut of the Messerschmitt Bf 110. It came in at 65" span which is a hair over 10% scale. Did not have to compromise any scale aspects for this one. The math worked out fine with a wing loading of between 15 and 19 oz/sqft at the expected 4 & 5 lbs (with retracts) respectively.

Should be a real slow and scale bomber in flight. Of course it will fly fast too if you crank up the throttle.

Attached is the 3 view I used, with many thanks to the one who sent them to me. A picture as it comes out of the box. And views at each 45 degree angle starting from the full frontal.

The blue colored foam are the plugs that will be replaced by plastic cowls and clear canopy, so use your imagination there.

You comments/observations/questions are not only welcome, but also much valued & sought after, before I freeze the design and gear up for kit production and Sparky gears up for the plastic set.

Fahim
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Feb 03, 2009, 11:26 PM
I am the BBQ Ninja
Willmsy's Avatar
Looks really nice Fahim!

Matt
Feb 03, 2009, 11:53 PM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
Oh man, I think I'm hooked again. I like the C model nose better than the G but that's an easy change for the builder. Now I have to get the B-26 done to make room for the 110!
Nice work Fahim, hope your back is better.

J
Latest blog entry: A2D Skyshark at 1/8th scale
Feb 04, 2009, 12:01 AM
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D-Rock's Avatar
Fahim, she is looking good! I am really excited about this one. Couple of thoughts. While I know the nacells are odd in shape, is it possible to cut them at their tallest point in the oval shape (not sure if that makes sense...lol). Also the same idea with the nose section. I like the size, 65 is great. Another idea, depending on what you are planning, is to have Sparky pull molds for the spinners and have someone (perhaps even you if you have access to a cnc or laser) cut the backplates.

D-Rock
Feb 04, 2009, 12:37 AM
Oh no, not again!
jhspring's Avatar
Fahim, yah hope you are feeling better, back pain takes forever to go away. Me110, again Wow, your designs just keep getting better and better. I echo D-Rock, with this one scale plastic spinners are a must. No need for cut-outs, some will use 2-bladers, some 3. You're killing me of course, I am still on the B24, two planes behind.

Cheers,
Jeff
Feb 04, 2009, 12:53 AM
Registered User
D-Rock's Avatar
Looking again at your numbers, she'll be real nice at 4-5 lbs. The full size Me-110, while not a very manoverable airplane, was a great flyer. I see you added washout, nice touch. Is the center section flat on this version? I think the full size was angled from the center. Speaking of which, would it be possible to cut the ends of the wing (root) to the correct angle. Another option would be to make the nose section from plastic (perhaps in halves left and right). This could be removed for access to the battery on a tray extending into the nosecone. This may also cut down on the foam cutting time. I don't want to over-load you with suggestions, just have had a lot of time thinking about this one.

D-Rock
Feb 04, 2009, 08:01 AM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
Could you just let me finish one model before releasing another must have !!! Looks great and is one that has some great version/colour options available also retracts probably very simple to add to this one. Look after your back! I have lived with back pain for years now and it ain't fun, can't hand launch a paper dart these days!!
Feb 04, 2009, 08:25 AM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
D-Rock is right. The wing dihedral is angled from the center of the wing, it doesn't break from the nacelles like it looks in your pics. It will be a great flier. I have a 44" 110 from Gus Morfis plans and it is sweet in the air.

J
Latest blog entry: A2D Skyshark at 1/8th scale
Feb 04, 2009, 08:43 AM
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pda4you's Avatar
Sorry to hear you were down....

The the BF-110 looks great.....

Feb 04, 2009, 10:46 AM
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awrightbrother's Avatar
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Hello guys,
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try and address each one in this reply.

Back trouble: I have had this for many years due to speed boating on choppy waters. I have kept it under control with regular exercise, but got lazy and stopped for about a month. That was dumb. "Back to the Bowflex as soon as I can", has been added to my todo list. Thanks for your wishes.

Dihedral: I had to stare at this for a long time before I put it to paper. Attached is a full scale front view with red lines added. Notice the section of the wing between the nacelles has a flat surface on top and 4 deg dihedral on the bottom. Then after the nacelles the wing (both top and bottom) continue at a 4 deg angle. Compare that to the model picture with the same red lines and let me know if I got it right. It would have been much simpler to cut the wing as one panel, but I don't think that would be fully scale.

Nose Section: Yes the nose can be cut in two sections. I was thinking up and down vs left and right. The down part can be fixed and the up one removable as a battery hatch held down with magnets, dowels, etc. I usually save this to the end of the build by which time I should have a better idea of the battery location.

Prop Spinners: The prop face of the cowl is a circle exactly 3" in dia. Sparky and I did discuss doing them in plastic, but decided to go off-the-shelf, because it was hard to make sure they are completely balanced and perfectly centered, otherwise they will fly off at high revs. Several 3" nylon off-the-shelfs are available at Tower Hobbies, Du Bro, Goldberg, Tru Turn, etc. for a few bucks, both 2 and 3 bladed ones. Not 100% scale but close enough. Maybe someone here can do some Googling for a 3" ME BF110 spinner and let us know if you find one?

Backplates or Firewalls: I don't have a laser saw, but am looking to see if I can offer cut ply as an add-on option to all my kits from a 3rd party. Will keep you informed. Meanwhile, I have included a foam template to help mark the ply and cut it on a scroll saw. See the attached pics. Because the thrust line is offset on the firewall, there are 4 marks provided on the template to draw a cross hair to locate the center line of the motor.

Cutting the oval cross section of the Nacelle: I have done this on all my other models, but this one is different. Notice that the lower back end of the nacelle slopes below the oval face. If I cut an oval from the front, it would lob off the underside of the nacelle, so I have to leave it square. If you have a belt sander then it takes all of 1 minute to round off the corners. Mount or tape the ply firewall in place and use it as a guide. Here is a pic of my belt sander. It's actually a hand held belt sander held up side down in a vice. It took me about 2 minutes a nacelle to rough shape. Then a few minutes more to smooth 'em out.

Cutting the oval cross section of the Nose: Yes I will try to get that in.

Retracts: Yes should be relatively easy. The nacelles are large and roomy.

I hope I have not missed any of your valuable comments. Once again, my eternal gratitude for your help.

Fahim
Feb 04, 2009, 12:16 PM
Registered User
D-Rock's Avatar
Fahim, what are your thoughts on making the nose from plastic (either side by side or top and bottom)? Another option for this (and perhaps your other kits) is a "pro package" add on (sold seperately). This could be cnc or laser cut parts such as wing spars and or firewalls. You could also offer a standard set of decals to go with it... Just a thought.

D-Rock
Feb 04, 2009, 12:25 PM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
My references on the Bf 110 also show the dihedral as you have it. The undersurface runs in a straight line from fuse to tip. The night fighter versions have all sorts of neat "additions"! Gonna do flaps? Is Sparky going to make the exhaust stubs for you? And maybe a set of underwing tanks?
A neat colour scheme is that used by the Iraqi airforce in 1941. One kit change might be to cut the tips square and supply some square balsa as it is almost impossible to sand foam tips to prevent future hanger rash --- on my B-25 I inlaid a piece of 1/32 ply cut to the tip curvature and sanded around this but usually I make tips out of wood on any foam wing. Aircraft In Profile Vol 1/Part2 has some coloured unit insignia that could be blown up and made into decals.
Feb 04, 2009, 01:48 PM
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awrightbrother's Avatar
Thread OP
D-Rock

NOSE: I will discuss the nose with Keith and see. My initial thoughts are: 1) it will have a different texture than the rest of the fuselage and may look conspicous 2) the attachment and aligment becomes more complicated and requires balsa formers, etc.

PRO PACKAGE: Yes this is a good idea. My kits have ply for the firewalls, a couple of wing spars, a horiz stab spar, and a piece or two to retain the wing. I just have to find the time to get a laser cutting guy on board. I have a couple of leads that I need to follow up on.

DECALS: Thought about that but decided not to get into it. The variants on these warbirds are so numerous, it would be a nightmare.

Fahim

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rock
Fahim, what are your thoughts on making the nose from plastic (either side by side or top and bottom)? Another option for this (and perhaps your other kits) is a "pro package" add on (sold seperately). This could be cnc or laser cut parts such as wing spars and or firewalls. You could also offer a standard set of decals to go with it... Just a thought.

D-Rock
Feb 04, 2009, 02:02 PM
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awrightbrother's Avatar
Thread OP
Barry

Flaps are optional, and you can easily cut them with a blade. Same with rudders.

Exhaust Stubs: No, hoping you can carve them from a piece of balsa or shape a plastic straw.

Underwing tanks: Hmmm. Maybe Sparky already has some that would fit. Sparky come in pls.

Color: Do you have a picture of the Iraqi color scheme?

Balsa Tips: The tips are square out of the box.I don't want to get into supplying balsa since most builders have plenty of that lying around. Besides, if you use LS-2 the hangar rash is a non-issue.

Decals: See my answer to D-Rock


Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
My references on the Bf 110 also show the dihedral as you have it. The undersurface runs in a straight line from fuse to tip. The night fighter versions have all sorts of neat "additions"! Gonna do flaps? Is Sparky going to make the exhaust stubs for you? And maybe a set of underwing tanks?
A neat colour scheme is that used by the Iraqi airforce in 1941. One kit change might be to cut the tips square and supply some square balsa as it is almost impossible to sand foam tips to prevent future hanger rash --- on my B-25 I inlaid a piece of 1/32 ply cut to the tip curvature and sanded around this but usually I make tips out of wood on any foam wing. Aircraft In Profile Vol 1/Part2 has some coloured unit insignia that could be blown up and made into decals.
Feb 04, 2009, 06:05 PM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
Thanks for the answers but wish you would reconsider the exhausts -- have you seen them! Of course you are correct on supplying wood, not a problem for me and I suppose anyone could go to LHS and procure if required. Did not mean for you to supply decals, was just a scource for anyone wanting to make on their pc. Will try and download the Iraqi scheme --- I was incorrect in that it was a German group flying under Iraqi colours not the Iraqi Air Force.


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