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Old Jan 25, 2009, 06:57 PM
Kurpal is offline
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If abortion were illegal: what should the punishment be?


Very interesting question, and one that I like to ask people who believe abortion is 'murder' or should be illegal.

Asking Anti-Abortion Demonstrators an Important Question (6 min 48 sec)


I would take this one step further: What should we do to women who smoke, drink, or engage in other risky behavior during pregnancy?
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:11 PM
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The punishment would be for the provider of the abortion, not the recipient.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:23 PM
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Simple question, simple answer - If the crime is the taking of a human life, the penalty is the same as it would be for taking a human life.

But, of course, it is not illegal to have an abortion so it's a mute point. Roe v Wade will never be overturned.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Shaw
The punishment would be for the provider of the abortion, not the recipient.
Done illegally, by the mother of the fetus on herself, what should be the punishment? There is a reason why the term 'coat hanger' is used in this instance. What about drinking certain herbal teas to induce abortion?
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Johndou
Simple question, simple answer - If the crime is the taking of a human life, the penalty is the same as it would be for taking a human life.

But, of course, it is not illegal to have an abortion so it's a mute point. Roe v Wade will never be overturned.
That is why my question was "IF abortion were illegal..."
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:47 PM
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Roe v Wade will never be overturned.
Remember, it used to be legal to keep slaves and illegal to drink booze, so don't say "never".

I can't watch the video, because my sound is out, so, please bear with me. As to who would be guilty, I'd say the performer of the abortion would be the primary offender, although the woman and anyone who helped her would be accessories.

CD
Old Jan 25, 2009, 07:52 PM
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There have been prosecutions for self-induced abortions. I have personal knowledge of one. The girlfriend of a friend's room mate.

And I noticed someone saying Roe v Wade would never be overturned. Foolish.

Never underestimate religious zealotry and pure vindictive idiocy.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by badaltitude
There have been prosecutions for self-induced abortions. I have personal knowledge of one. The girlfriend of a friend's room mate.

And I noticed someone saying Roe v Wade would never be overturned. Foolish.

Never underestimate religious zealotry and pure vindictive idiocy.
Roe v Wade was passed in '73. We've seen the most "right wing" appointments to the Supreme court that we're going to see for quite awhile. Plus, we just finished with the most religious zeolot president this nation has seen. Do you seriously think this country is going to go in that direction again anytime soon? Roe v Wade still stands after almost 36 years, a flurry of protests and a religious right that has thrown everything at it that they can. I think anyone still looking for it to be overturned in living in a dream world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurpal
That is why my question was "IF abortion were illegal..."
That's pretty much an impossible "IF" if you want my opinion.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Johndou
Roe v Wade was passed in '73. We've seen the most "right wing" appointments to the Supreme court that we're going to see for quite awhile. Plus, we just finished with the most religious zeolot president this nation has seen. Do you seriously think this country is going to go in that direction again anytime soon? Roe v Wade still stands after almost 36 years, a flurry of protests and a religious right that has thrown everything at it that they can. I think anyone still looking for it to be overturned in living in a dream world.



That's pretty much an impossible "IF" if you want my opinion.
My argument does not take into account the relative probability of it coming to pass, simply the if it did, what would be the punishment. I understand that it is unlikely, yet these people still organize on street corners near my home. My argument is with those who say it should be illegal - what should be the consequence? To those who say it is murder, how should it be punished? How should alcohol use in a pregnant woman be punished? That also does harm to the fetus.

So if we can, get to the question instead of dodging it by talking about how unlikely it may or may not be for the question to become reality.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 09:15 PM
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Welcome back, BA. I hope you don't fall victim to overzealous and malevolent reporting-- again.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by redbird340
Welcome back, BA. I hope you don't fall victim to overzealous and malevolent reporting-- again.
Oh...I will.

It doesn't matter. Once a pedagogue, always a pedagogue. Reluctant learners are a constant challenge.

Here's the case with which I am personally familiar.


http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu...-29-NBC-7.html


Abortion aside...take note that the military and intelligence services of the US have been torturing prisoners of late. Anyone who believes that right wingers won't reinstitute practices and taboos thought confined to the past just haven't been paying attention the last 29 years.

They'll be burning witches if enough wrongly assume they aren't capable of it.
Last edited by badaltitude; Jan 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 09:52 PM
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Some of you talk as if it is a religion against atheist thing.

I know plenty of God fearing people that are all for abortion. They all vote Democratic. There are also many pro-life atheist out there as well. I do not know how they vote.

Point being, everyone seems to want to attack pro lifers and their religion, what, exactly, do you attack the pro life atheist with?

As for the punishment if it were illegal. How about jail?
Pretty simple.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 10:09 PM
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I think jail for punishment too and to the one who preforms the murder of the child.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by crashdummy6
Some of you talk as if it is a religion against atheist thing.

Point being, everyone seems to want to attack pro lifers and their religion, what, exactly, do you attack the pro life atheist with?

As for the punishment if it were illegal. How about jail?
Pretty simple.
First off, I did not bring up religion - you did. Religion should never be used as an argument for or against any potential position because it is inherently devoid of evidence. The reason why people argue against vast majority of "pro-life" religious component is that their justification for their position is based on religious grounds.

I have never witnessed a single atheist, let alone a group, on a street corner holding up a sign against abortion or a sign suggesting it is murder. I do not disagree that there are some legitimate reasons why some abortions should not be in practice, but in my opinion the reasons why abortion in general should be legal out weigh the reasons why it should not. I also have not seen an atheist opposing stem cell research on the grounds that a 3 day old embryo rights trump that of a 12 year old boy with a degenerative disease, and if I did I would hold that person as equally morally bankrupt as the less imaginary religious component of the anti-stem cell research community.
Quote:
I know plenty of God fearing people that are all for abortion. They all vote Democratic. There are also many pro-life atheist out there as well. I do not know how they vote.
I know plenty of religious people who accept scientific theory, support stem cell research, and are pro-choice. Stem cell research and evolution are both topics whose opposition is solely that of the religious aspect of our population. There are valid reasons to opposing stem cell research, and abortion, but I have never heard them voiced by the communities who currently oppose them.
Old Jan 25, 2009, 10:31 PM
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Welcome back BA.


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