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Oct 15, 2009, 05:27 AM
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what a twit I am, why didnt I think of that... Ive got gyros.... I picked up some from ebay...eskys at only 2.50 ea plus post and they work ok...Ive also got a good futaba headinghold I could try...a 401

thanks...dave

edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:26 AM.
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Oct 15, 2009, 07:08 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Ive finally got the motors running as they should, the programming is a bit weird..
using two mixes
On a FF9 mix 1 throttle to rudder is +100/100 but, if on the mix 2 rudder to throttle I use -100/-100 it doesnt work..however going down to -70/-70 or -50/-50 it then does
note + and - settings they are important
A question on the split numbers, like -70/-70:
I guess that you can specify different % mixes for the upper and lower
halves of the range, so the number before the split is for one half
and the other number is for the other half?

Also, it looks like you could get the needed mixing with just 2 mixes.
This is better than the Goolie creators, who seemed to want 3 mixes.

In http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/...tml#flp-goolie :

Overview:
A TX with 3 programmable mixes can usually be configured for rudder control of differential throttle, e.g.: mix (1) 100% throttle to an aux channel, mix (2) 50% rudder to throttle, mix (3) -50% rudder to aux channel. The Spektrum DX7 can implement differential throttle but the DX6i can not and an external V-Tail mixer is required (inputs throttle & rudder, outputs to two ESC).
Oct 16, 2009, 03:58 AM
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I didnt see that before..now I am well confused

edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:28 AM.
Oct 16, 2009, 03:19 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
I didnt see that before..now I am well confused
Actually this is the only time that I have seen differential mixing needing
3 mixes.
Your mixing,
mixing in a F35 thread
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1072720

and other mixing that I have seen on the RCG Goolie thread
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=990577

seem to just mix rudder and throttle channels together with
1 ('incomplete' job) or 2 mixes.
Oct 18, 2009, 09:52 AM
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Ive just spent all morning fiddling with the program mixes and very nearly got it correct... Run out of juice then had lunch..when I put it back on, one motor was not working properly, so suspecting ESC trouble I have swapped out both the 12A and replaced them with a pair of DYS18A...( just that they are a pair), not for size reasons.
Both now worked, so resetting all the mixes, I used the rudder subtrim to get em nearly together, then speeded em up, and used the throw %ages to get them more even as I went up through the throttle range... They seem much better now, and getting the revs even was easier.. time again will tell..

so I suspected a dodgy esc...in the 12A pair.. and on close inspection the one that was giving troubles had a melted outer cover, it was working but obviously not correctly

heres a pic of my test bed... got the model clamped in so I can fire it up..wood and eqipment well heavy so it wont go anywhere

flight test tomorrow if the weather holds

edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Oct 24, 2009, 02:11 PM
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rain here stops play
Oct 24, 2009, 05:27 PM
Spaced Oddity.
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Quote:
rain here stops play
Technically just a "pause", not a "stop"... Looking forward to the next "resume play" LOL
Sure yur not in Pittsburgh?
Dan
Oct 25, 2009, 04:20 AM
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Bad weather is a pain, when its stopped raining it is blowing hard, and now were getting cold as well...moan moan , what an old grump ...but when there is no flying at least I am building, so all is not lost.
latest building project is here.. yes its another flying wing.. a HO229 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1130068

and this cyclone one is not sorted yet...

edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Oct 29, 2009, 10:42 AM
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I spent a while retrimming the motors and got them pretty close so I had another flight... Again at moderate throttle the plane went well.. but throttle up and there was a turn, so I used rudder trim and it went worse...weird until I used rudder stick to turn and the B went the wrong way.... oh! yes left went right.....

Back to square one, I had to change the escs in the radio and now its all out of sync again and I have to get the B things running together..

when it works its fun but this is getting a real pain, much more and it will meet its end....

edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Oct 29, 2009, 10:48 AM
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As a design the cyclone flys well and spins like a top with the differential thrust.. but to be honest I am fed up with trying to get the motors in sync through the throttle range..

It would be more fun as an overpowered light delta, cause it goes like mad when you put full power through it, yet it will fly very slow all due to its light wing loading..

so its not a loss, even if I give up on the twin, it will make an excellent single engine jobby...

no it wont the control rods are up the middle as is the fuz, so easier to remake ather than rehash
edit stupid programming error all sorted now see post 57
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:27 AM.
Oct 30, 2009, 08:02 AM
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Anther morning getting the motors to run together...then I take it out and fire it up ..and one motor wont run untill the throttle is over half way up.....So F* it I am giving up...I dont know why its not working and I now cant be bothered any more

If you can sort the motors its a lot of fun ..if not its not worth the hastle...The cylcone is for the bin...
lots more to build but no more time to waste

The airframe itself is great even though I measured incorrectly the thing flies great...but stick a big single motor on it, its far easier

edit see below
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:04 AM.
Nov 02, 2009, 06:39 AM
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I am very confused.. after unsuccessfully trying to get the motors reving correctly together..I gave up.... so I stuck on a Y lead to the throttle...
Now they both run off the same ch... they both run spot on through the revs range ...
so its got to be a programming problem but how can I sort it

I am using a Futaba FF9C

I might have it sussed.. With futaba radios being so programmable there just had to be something simple, set wrong, and no good reason for the motors to be doing weird things, so I used the numbers from the goolie thread +100/+100 Throttle-Rudder and -70/-70 Rudder-Throttle in the mixes ..ok..then looked at the inh/on and made sure both were on.. then I noticed a link setting that was set on in just one of the mixes, what it does Ive no clue, so I turned this off... now the B*** thing is working and both motors seem together...So the cyclone gets a second chance... lucky I didnt jump on it when it was driving me mad...
Last edited by davereap; Nov 02, 2009 at 08:30 AM.
Nov 03, 2009, 03:53 AM
Registered User
Why not temporarily fit 2 servos to the throttle outlets, put them alongside each other and check if they move evenly and equally to check the mixing?
(You'll have to power the Rx from a battery or plug the ESC supplying power to the Rx into a spare channel)
Nov 03, 2009, 04:19 AM
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No need now, once I ran the motors up and down on a Y lead, just on the throttle channel, I realised they were exactly together in their performance, so the problem must be simple, and in how I had set up the mixing...
it turned out to be a link option in the programable mixing.
Turned off all goes well, turned on and all sorts of funny things were happening..

futabas definition of the link function...mixing function that allows multiple mixes to work in conjunction...when I read that I turned it on , after all I was using 2 mixes...seems logical....so why did it cause the problem? who knows...

now all I need is some decent dry weather
Last edited by davereap; Nov 03, 2009 at 04:28 AM.
Nov 06, 2009, 06:45 AM
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Right....

its had another fly.... now the motors run together there are no major problems...

looking at the way it was flying, it kites too much into the wind...So the fins are too large..

The motors now run together so the acceleration is straight, providing you dont apply any rudder...Using the rudder didnt actually do much, so then I checked the dual rates and found that I was flying downrated on only 50% .. when I put it on full rates it spun like a top..so that is working well..

I am going to set the rudder downrates to 0% then I can turn off the mix effect at the switch...usefull for takeoffs/hand launching where unwanted rudder when throttling up will cause problems
I had problems side arm lauching because of the cross winds and the kite effect.. and rolled it into the ground once quite hard, but the build is strong so there was no damage, it was better to throw using the large keel then throttle up quickly.. thats why I want to turn the rudder off, so I dont mess it up by giving unwanted rudder as I hit the throttle..

All flying is now much improved, with the big elevons and high movement it rolls very fast, and loops are tight, even at slow speeds , so I was flying on low rates.. Ive got the COG spot on now so the glide is good..

All in all, working as it should...

I will try to get some better video when I can persuade my other half to come out


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