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Dec 24, 2008, 11:38 AM
The Predator
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DS Acro Addicts!

DS Acro

Please submit new maneuvers and ideas as well as video demonstrations!

Videos from The Predator are found here:

From Joe W.

The basic:

Horizontal figure eight with positive gs (half roll at the center)
Horizontal figure eight with half positive and the other half negative
Vertical Z - above the shear flying into the wind, push to inverted descent, pull after crossing shear going downwind, climb back into the wind

Tick Tock - fly roughly parallel to the ridge, doing primarily elevator pushes and pulls to cross the shear at a grazing angle to accelerate while being parallel to the slope (requires clean shear), mild roll rocking required to get it right
Rolling DS circle - continuous rolls while executing a DS circle or figure eight

Unfortunately, the coolest stuff is hard to describe. "first, pop above the shear,roll wings vertical then push 180, do 90 roll to wings level after crossing shear, push 180, roll 270, pull..." just doesn't do it justice. Where it gets really fun is in stringing together a bunch of moves in a flowing fashion so it appears seamless. Speed is not the key here, but fluid and varied maneuvers are.

I suspect that Predator has the same disease as I do, that DS acro is way cooler to execute than just going fast in circles. For me it is a zen thing, the satisfaction of pulling off a cool string of maneuvers is quite nice. Maybe I'll have to visit CO sometime to fly with a fellow DS acro addict!

Jantar 2:
I like to call it (Tick Tock) snaking the ridge.


The Predator:

Ian calls it that too but when he "snakes" it, he is rolling right and left to keep the wing top "up" during the shear crossings, like a snake with his back always up despite his winding path VS tick tock where we are attempting to hold a knife edge and rely mainly on push pull action to maneuver/cross the shear, especially if the power is HUGE. Pure semantics really though to simply find the most clear descriptive name to fit the maneuver.

I was thinking about it more last night, about how I mentioned the slight tilt to the knife edge to hold altitude with tick tocking. The tilt, bank angle, is parallel to the shear line for PERFECT shear crossings to max power with push pull action and I think the altitude stays fairly constant since gravity is such a small factor in big air and the wing does have some horizontal projected surface area for lift/altitude maintenance.

As a rock climber we used to say, sew it up bro! And I do think that is a cool way to refer to DS acro in general. I'd like to try embroidering my name on the ridge with my flight path! Bust out the smoke cans, or more realistically the old VHS tape strapped on for wing tip streamers!!!! I will do more of this and for the camera. . . with you Nick and Ian. . . but, the temps out here are quite prohibitive for now. So I will post some older video of Nick and I DS acro\hunting each other.

My fingers last about 2 min.s on the sticks in our current sub-freezing temps. No way can I play with the cam, streamers and such and expect to have much finger feeling at all come launch time. I hate this winter so far, way cold is fine but, where the hell are the jet stream winds/Chinooks????? It has been inversion/pollution central so far! Thank god I developed some light fast DSer's too! They are surreal in 1 mph of vertical lift forming a weak but clean shear. LOVE IT!
Last edited by The Predator; Dec 26, 2008 at 12:45 PM.
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Dec 24, 2008, 07:26 PM
Just Fly it

Beautiful and nicely done

Bring on more of the DS video. Its sooo far and few between for go fast DS, that im really starting to see DS as acrobatic more than all this waiting, and then having to work anyways.

Lets see what can be done.
Dec 25, 2008, 12:22 AM
I DS slower than I build!
Cory's Avatar
Where do you DS near Arco? I've found many front side slopes around there, but none as good as what we have close to Idaho Falls. You should also try King Mountain, a little north of Arco. Make sure you stop by and fly Kepp's with us when you pass through to fly Arco.
Dec 25, 2008, 12:39 AM
gas tires and oil
prplgoat's Avatar
funny cory...............there may be only a couple of us that got that immediately!

Dec 25, 2008, 03:37 AM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
DS Arco rules.. Wait, isn't that a brand of gasoline?
Not too late to edit the thread title.

BTW, I think Nick's reverse DS loops (mentioned in the other thread
that spawned this one) were originally inspired by my reverse DS loops.
He just does em generally going faster with a greater hesitation at 270
degrees. My video contest winner from two springs ago showed some of
my first. Did some more at Parker that same spring all by myself and
then lots and lots at Jones all summer with the Fazer.

Anyway, I'll admit that most of my DS acro inspiration came from
an old video of Joe W doing acro at Parker around sunset. Big flowing
moves up and down and all around the whole ridge. Very Zen-like flying.
The turning point for me in actually doing it, was when we filmed that acro
vid with the Fazer, and I was so frustrated with the lack of lift on the front,
I dropped it over the back and did the whole acro routine on the backside.
The Fazer has zero bad habits and will pull 180 degree turns in a couple
lengths, so it became by far my favorite light air DS acro plane.
I've put more DS miles on that plane than any other, although I spent
nearly a week tearing it up with the Crossfire at Weldon (The Fazer
inspired me to look for a faster light weight/medium wind 3m DS acro plane,
and JW's Crossfire vid always in the back of my mind confirmed what it was
capable of). I'm now on my second Fazer (flew the battery out on
the first one DSing it at Jones), and my second Crossfire (blew first one up
at Weldon). I've also got a Victor F3B I'm looking forward to testing out
in the groove, because it's stronger and supposedly better than the Fazer.

In general I do less controlled rolling (DS rolling circles and such),
and more vertical moves, and ballistic rolls. I like stuff like:
1. Coming out of the groove fast, roll wings level, pull hard square to vertical,
then after a second or two on the upline do a HARD negative-G push, going
from vertical up to vertical down pointing straight at the lip of the ridge,
roll 180 on the downline, pull hard up to enter groove low and parallel to
ground, and finish with a couple reverse DS loops.
2. Climb out high to the front, and turn around. Dive straight toward the front
face, pull up near ground (like a front side in-your-face), but as soon as plane
is parallel with front side face, throw into continuous rolls on a ballistic
trajectory over the top of the ridge, continuing high over the back above
the shear, let it continue rolling as it eventually points straight down into
the DS groove. Stop rolling as it crosses the shear, and pull back out
through the groove to the front, wings level.
3. Similar in-your-face start, but as it comes up the front face, roll inverted,
and then pull "up" quickly (toward the ground) as the plane comes over
the top of the ridge. Stop pull when parallel with back face,
cross shear inverted, roll 90 and pull or push to turn out of the groove
normally. It's a hard mental barrier to cross to make yourself
pull up while inverted and close to the ground.
4. Punchout tailslides. Similar start as #1. Pull hard square
to vertical on the exit of groove, but let the vertical climb drift
back with the wind so plane eventually just stops and slides backwards
on its tail as it drifts back above the groove, flops, tumbles to recover
and then dive straight vertically down through the shear into the groove
and pull up to recover.
If you can trust the position and size of the groove, there's little risk to
moves like this and the Ninja Star, because the ground is dropping away
from the plane as it drifts/tumbles backwards. Doing the same moves
on a frontside-only slope means that if the plane tumbles longer, lower
than expected, you lose the altitude you need to recover.
5. Basic DS figure 8's. Just stand facing backside,
exit the left side circuit to my right, roll 180 to left, pull to enter right side
circuit and exit to my left, roll 180 to right and so forth. Barely have
to move your head.
6. Figure 8's with close rolling exit using opposite rolling direction.
That is, exiting left side circuit to my right, I start right hand 180 degree
roll before shear crossing, still coming at me, and finish it on front side
before pulling up to start right side circuit. What makes this one weird is
the way the top of the wing seems to just stay facing you
through the whole maneuver. It's a little disorienting as the plane
passes over your head while rolling and becomes a little harder to
judge the roll angle of the plane. And you'll kill the plane quickly if
you start the next DS turn early because it is wholey or partially inverted
for the whole half roll and any pull takes it to the ground. First did this
one DSing my LED Bee at night which made it really trippy. Have
splatted a couple foamies when I didn't wait long enough to complete
the half roll before starting to pull.

As for the Snake/tick-tock moves. Yes, I like to snake up and down
the ridge at Jones (which is several hundred yards long) doing 180 degree
rolls (basically normal pulling entries), and am still not comfortable
doing alternate pushes and pulls as we've seen others do.
From an execution standpoint, Tick-tock seems the better name
since the stick motions are the same. Visually, it has a very snakey
look to it.

Dec 25, 2008, 03:50 AM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
And here's some related vids.

2007 Acro video contest winner. Me DSing Fazer for first time, Karl filming.

Nick doing some 200mph DS acro with Extreme and Extropus at Weldon

My Crossfire doing its thing at Jones. That plane makes people giggle and swear.

Fazer doing Freestyle Acro at Jones

Karl having some fun with the 24" Halfbad wing in about 10mph of wind.
(3 min 26 sec)

Some freestyle DS (not to much Acro) of my Extropus at Weldon with good sound.

Freestyle nighttime DSing at Zion with Karl and my LED Bees, filmed by me while flying.

Dec 25, 2008, 04:03 PM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cool thread... I'm just starting to mix up some DS acro... theres one vid I found on YT of someone ds acroing a JW60.... freaking awesome vid... will see if I can find it again.
Dec 26, 2008, 02:27 PM
The Predator
The Predator's Avatar
Thanks ALOT Ian! I think you must be right about the Death Loop DS too since it was right there in some of the older video I took of you, OPPS! That's a cool one! I may have to spend the night once on Jones next year for some LED night DS action. That was one cool deal when we did that on Zion!
Dec 27, 2008, 12:37 AM
Registered User
quadshot's Avatar
Great thread Karl, and awesome videos Ian. Very inspirational for us guys just starting tricks on the backside.

Thanks guys,

Jan 21, 2009, 05:14 PM
Is it DS'able?
wr_mizzard's Avatar

DS acro (Cali' style) at "The Narrows"

(4 min 29 sec)

Here's a vid from a new DS spot I scoped out this MLK day. It's east of San Diego off Hwy 8 at Buckman Springs Rd.
It was a short half-mile, 500ft vertical hike on a nice trail. The slope is covered with granite boulders... next time I'll take my climbing gear and check out some of the faces.
I need to work on some more moves besides rolling right out of the shear layer ... but being the first time I've flown there and considering the pucker-factor with the "narrow" spaces between boulders at the lip it was great fun just getting a feel for the place and the energy it holds.
It was fun winding up the Prairie Dog in tight circles close to the rocks, and it was just as cool to open up the circles and dive deep with the Blast for some rockin' crunchie DS circuits. Don't ask me how I managed to land the little beastie though... it was a miracle!

working on more maneuvers
Jan 21, 2009, 08:56 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Very nicely done. Liked it enough to download the original file from Vimeo
to watch it without added compression.

We were once told that we should just move the rocks out of our
LZs to make them more crunchie friendly by some of your Cali brethren.
Now you know. Get to it.

Jan 22, 2009, 12:01 PM
The Predator
The Predator's Avatar
Thank-you James! Excellent addition to the thread.

OMG Ian, you had some INSANE laps yourself yesterday. I can't believe you got out of that scenic gully tour! at 120MPH or so doing a full 180 in the channel there or, that "save" that almost killed us all! I think you were wise to quit when you did! My little Fiend pleased me to no end as well as Nick's Little B JW. I am SURE that is the fastest I've see a 36" go, ever. Maybe the fastest I've ever seen a 20 ozs wing go too! WOW!
Jan 27, 2009, 11:03 AM
The Predator
The Predator's Avatar
Here's a newer one of many of the brothers ripping it up together!
(4 min 4 sec)
Jan 27, 2009, 09:24 PM
Registered User
quadshot's Avatar
Karl, great video. I love the angle to watch all the planes at one time. I can watch that over and over again following a different plane each time. You are definetly the King of dsing wings. Bees, Rebels, Outlaws all love the backside.

Thanks for sharing the video.

Jan 27, 2009, 09:28 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
I also snagged a copy of Karl's original video and re-encoded it in
XviD format at full framerate for smoother action at about the same image quality. (Right click - save as).


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