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Dec 07, 2008, 11:17 AM
Dog is my co-pilot.
mrdj's Avatar
Glad it helps. The u/c looks a different in the 3-view than I would have thought. I'll get you the data later today.

DJM
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Dec 07, 2008, 11:26 AM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdj
Glad it helps. The u/c looks a different in the 3-view than I would have thought. I'll get you the data later today.

DJM
(I PM'd my email address...)

I also note Ahremark's design shows a faired strut, where the pic shows a plain strut. It seems adding springs to the LG is not an option for me!

Finding some wheels/tires that look right might be a challenge, too...

James
Dec 07, 2008, 12:27 PM
Two left thumbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce

Finding some wheels/tires that look right might be a challenge, too...

James
Trexler balloon wheels are still available, and with a machined aluminum hub they'd look just right. http://www.trexlerballoonwheel.com/

Geoff
Dec 07, 2008, 03:11 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffinpdx
Trexler balloon wheels are still available, and with a machined aluminum hub they'd look just right. http://www.trexlerballoonwheel.com/

Geoff
I actually have a set I ordered with my Lazy Bee about 10+ years ago (which is still under construction! ), and I think they may be 3". 'Course I'll need a third for the nosewheel, as the LB tail wheel is only about an inch!

I would hope aluminium (for the benefit of those who speak the Queen's English!) would not be too heavy for hub material. I guess they'd actually be pretty small, though. I wonder if Tom at the museum would let me use some of the tools there!

James
Dec 07, 2008, 03:49 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdj
... I'll get you the data later today.

DJM
Got it, thanks! Printed out and being pored over!

James
Dec 07, 2008, 03:56 PM
Registered User
Frank Whalen's Avatar
To make alum. hubs for trexlers, remove deflated tires from wooden hubs.
Cut disks from alum. foil 1/2 to 3/4 inch larger than hub diameter, spray
hub sides with 3M or similar adhesive. wrap foil disk over wooden hub,
replace tire and admire your aluminum hubbed Trexlers.

Frank
Dec 07, 2008, 09:24 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Whalen
To make alum. hubs for trexlers, remove deflated tires from wooden hubs.
Cut disks from alum. foil 1/2 to 3/4 inch larger than hub diameter, spray
hub sides with 3M or similar adhesive. wrap foil disk over wooden hub,
replace tire and admire your aluminum hubbed Trexlers.

Frank
Hehe! And admire one's reflection in their handiwork! I'll have to see how that looks compared to the prototype... While I do not have Trexlers in hand, it seems more hub is visible on them than on those in the pic of the FL-23. I guess I'll have to decide how picky I need to be! The foil bit would definitely be simpler.

James
Dec 07, 2008, 09:37 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffinpdx
Excellent selection! Glad to see you taking the plunge!

I'm pretty sure Bob Banka would have a three view, etc, but why not call our friend in Illinois, Roland Friestad? You saw all those planes he had on his database when he was out here.
Geoff
Geoff,

Roland (from Full Size Plans**) pulled a nice little bit from his "library!" While he could find only three hits in his database, two of which are those I already have, he found a MAN article and three view... with dimensions! Hoohoo!

I'm at Ma & Pa's right now, but when I get home, I'm printing out the article to pore over. Included in the article are a couple "never before seen" photos. Well, at least not seen by me!

I also received a reply from Pacific Aerospace, Ltd. in NZ, and the gent relayed the sad news they have no info.

I guess I should simply begin design in earnest now, and anything new will have to fit in later.

James

** Full Size Plans is a way-cool source of oldie but goodie model plans from magazines and sources past!
Dec 08, 2008, 09:14 AM
North East England
A very nice choice of model, I'd never even heard of this one before - I like the high tail.

That pic of your 'Mission Control' pc really brings back memories of sitting for hours typing lines of BASIC code into the thing then finding the program was too big for the memory - happy days! Kids don't know the fun they're missing today with modern pc's

Steve
Dec 08, 2008, 09:53 AM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbaron25
A very nice choice of model, I'd never even heard of this one before - I like the high tail.
Thanks. Sadly, the FL-23 was an "also ran," thus relegated to history's obscure drawer in the basement! It would have been interesting to see where development of this aircraft might have taken it had the stab not separated...

Quote:
That pic of your 'Mission Control' pc really brings back memories of sitting for hours typing lines of BASIC code into the thing then finding the program was too big for the memory - happy days! Kids don't know the fun they're missing today with modern pc's

Steve
Haha! I don't know if Clive Sinclair ever made as much as he deserved from the ZX computers, but the TS1000 was my family's first foray into computers. A bit quirky, but in those days, what could you expect for $100! We used it a lot until we eventually got an Atari 1200XL. Ah, those were the days!

Meanwhile, back on topic...

That "high tail" will present some interest in the structure department as well. The vertical stab, however, appears to be somewhat thick, so I ought to be able to fit some decent meat inside. Also, from the information I've gathered so far (Großer Dank to everyone who has contributed! ), the FL-23 showed several changes in its short life. One is the configuration of the vert stab tip.

It seems the original was sans dorsal fin, but somewhere in it's testing, it grew a dorsal, as well a rather hasty-looking (and decidedly unattractive) addition to the top of the fin. So now I wonder if I may encounter fin/rudder area "issues." I may go with the dorsal and the fin tip configuration as shown in the Janes reference. It is a bit larger than what I believe to be original, but not as ugly as the configuration shown in a pic in the MAN reference.

Aesthetics are important! Pat "maltone" Lynch's Bison is in a league of its own, of course!

James
Dec 09, 2008, 11:40 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
After poking through the bits of information at hand, I've settled on a hybrid, of sorts, respecting the details to be included on the FL-23 model. Originally, I'd thought to model what I call the "early" version, as it had a "clean" appearance. However, taking into consideration what appear to be mods made to the FL-23, I will not model what I would guess is a "late" version. Take a peek at that hideous addition to the top of the fin!

My guess is some directional stability issues were encountered, and somewhere along the way, a dorsal fin was added, as well as the Fin Monster. With that in mind, I decided to go with the dorsal, at least. Also, in the Janes Reference is a 3-view with a pleasant-looking tip with a bit more area than the early, and is one with which I can be happy!

Other mods are in evidence as well. One is an enlarged cooling air exit at the side of the cowl, and the larger of the two will likely make it to the model. Another is the fairing covering the main gear struts, and I haven't decided where to go with them yet. Much may depend on how I execute the struts themselves. Note in the flying shot, compared with the "squatting" pics, how extended those gear can get! There's a certain cool factor about them that begs to be modeled!

Also, the flying pic gives me a very interesting peek into the cabin area, and the nature of its structure. I should be able to use something similar on the model, keeping what will be a rather visible interior structure close to scale in looks.

Pencil has been put to paper, neurons are synapting, axons are dendriting, and a start to actual building is not far from sight. As alluded to earlier, the fin-stabilator design will take some cogitating. I will try to post some conceptual sketches a bit later for "communal kibitzing." One nice thing about this subject is downthrust will not be an issue!

James
Dec 22, 2008, 04:12 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
Thread OP
Well, I admit not much has been done on the Fletcher, at least construction-wise. Originally, I was going to do some simple, sketchy plans to use, but have since decided to put things to CAD. Much of the time has been spent thusly. As I progress with my CADding about, however, I come across the inevitable "design decision," which puts engineering in the conference room with supply and budgeting. I then attempt to implement some structure that takes into account the, uh, accounting!

Sadly, the weather has limited accessibility to any of the LHSs about, so, in a fit of cabin fever-induced on-line browsing, I ordered a few bits and pieces I know I'll need even at this stage of design. I'll likely be getting hold of BUSA soon and lay in a supply of wood, as I have a pretty good idea already what and how much I'll need.

I won't need to finalize motor installation until a bit later into the construction, so I will be able to get a better idea of final weight and therefore motor requirements. I'm hoping to get by with what I have in hand, but the more I think on it, the less likely that will be. I've run some possibilities through MotoCalc, and my Axi 2212/34 may not be quite enough!

As this is my first scale scratch build of my own design, I am rather motivated by the challenges this project presents! As I encounter these challenges, however, I've had to re-think a few things to accommodate both structure and scale fidelity. Time will tell how well I pull this off!

James
Dec 22, 2008, 04:39 PM
Two left thumbs
Since you live further east than I do, your weather is worse, and it's plenty bad here! But, as you say, it does afford designing or building time.

For the Trexlers, use the concave bottom of a soda can. You can make a faux wheel of any diameter you're likely to need.

Consider placing the T tail on top of an extended fin. Not scale, but you'll get the needed extra surface area that way, and it'll look better.

Good to hear that Roland Friestad was able to help! He's got quite a collection.
I second the suggestion of signing up with his plans service. You'll never run out of something to build that way!

Geoff
Jan 17, 2009, 11:37 PM
Dog is my co-pilot.
mrdj's Avatar
Any more progress? I like obscure planes and would love to see this one,

DJM
Jan 17, 2009, 11:44 PM
Registered User
Kiwi's Avatar
Quote "The Fletcher FL-23 was designed to the late '40's Army spec for light liaison duty. It was the only aircraft entered designed specifically for the competition, the other entries being mods to commercial designs. During one of the test flights, the horizontal stab parted company, the FL-23 crashing. It was not able to be rebuilt in time to finish the competition, so the Army ended up with what became the L-19 Bird Dog. Not that that was a bad thing, of course! It simply makes documentation of the FL-23 difficult at best to find..."

Wasn't the Boeing XL-15 designed to the specification? All the write ups on it state that it lost out to the L-19.


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