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Jan 25, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Carbon Dragon and light lift

There are some tricks I have not mastered yet about working light lift. The other day I was trying to work a narrow band of lift near the peak of a ridge. It seemed to be smaller than I could turn in but it was strong. Because it was close to the mountain, I could only turn away from the peak, so that meant flying in sink for 3/4 of the figure 8. I wish I could post the GPS rabit track which makes the situation more understandable.

There are some old timers out here that seem to stay up hours at a time when nobody else can find lift. They are the equivalent to Jo Wurts (sp?), I suppose.

Last January the SSA convention in Little Rock, AR had three KF/Carbon ultralight gliders that were in the 200 lb. range. They could do things like use small an light glass panel displays. They have been setting some records because they can stay up when others can't.

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Jan 25, 2011, 02:13 PM
Scott Zastoupil
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The Carbon Dragon would be cool. There one particular DLG pilot that is also a full scale sailplane pilot that was talking about the CD and it's light lift capabilities. It is my understanding that it's a plans built aircraft only.

You can attach any of these file types to your postings here on RCG. It was the old forums that wasn't setup for it. (bmp doc g3x gif jpe jpeg jpg kmz pdf png psd recording txt zip)

Boy, would this be interesting to least once. (could be first and last time)
Jan 25, 2011, 02:39 PM
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The track of 12-24-2010

Let me give this a try. There are several tracks on this particular file. The yellow track is the one I am talking about. I found some lift in the foothill for this small range near Estrella Sailport.
Feb 20, 2011, 02:46 PM
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Time to start getting revved up for the flying season, so here's a picture of my double secret winter project (actually last fall's project, but it's still a work in progress.) I took the 40" Apogee wing design, designed a 'cross tail' to keep it pointed in the right direction, and built up a quick fuselage to hold the whole thing together.

It flies very well for such a small airplane, (especially considering I've never discus launched before) and I'm well into the 2.0 version for the spring. Note the packing tape nose, it's holding 15 grams of ballast due to my mis-analysis. (Don't worry, when I designed real airplanes we always had someone check my math....) I hope to cut most of that 15 grams out with the new fuselage.

Feb 20, 2011, 03:52 PM
Scott Zastoupil
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Looks like you're having fun. At least someone's building something around here, because I'm not.

Just a couple of observations in regards to weight savings and the tail. It looks like there is an opportunity to get ride of some of the tail weight in the pushrod housings and maybe pushrods. For pushrods you could easily use 0.014 or 0.018" stainless. I use 0.018 on the full 1.5M DLG's with no problem. The small teflon tube just needs to be attached everywhere except for the last inch or so on both ends.

At first glance the tails look small, but in looking at the boom length they are probably proportionate. (ie. product of boom length and tail area) The tail volume versus boom length is a balancing act. Longer boom lengths tend to require more nose weight, but dampening quickly on a dlg launch for higher launch height. Too long will also comprise maneuverability for tight knat fart thermals. Shorter boom length will result in the exact opposite in all cases and require larger tails to compensate.

Anyway, food for thought and don't mean to stifle the innovation of trying things for yourself.

August 2004 Soaring Digest - Basic Tail Sizing Checks
"Cruciform tail like that on SuperGee for sure. You can find the vertical and horizontal tail areas on the Charles River plans (horizontal: Sh = 16.1 sq in, vertical: Sv = 9.1 sq in)."
Feb 20, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Thanks for the info. I like playing around with 'unusual' design concepts and I especially like building my own designs, and I think I'll be doing more as time goes on.

The tail does look small, but it is on a longer boom than I would have probably used if I was starting from scratch. I started with the 'stock' Apogee boom length and did the calc's for sizing a conventional tail from the Apogee's vee tail. It seems to have plenty of control, but when I get it back in the air I'll start optimizing things (including eventually building an 'all up' final configuration with a lighter boom and a better built wing.) I used a lot of 'thumb rules' to get this in the air quickly, the fact it flew as well as it did right off the board was a little surprising to me.

FWIW, This was basically built from 'shop scrap' with the exception of the wing leading edge, which is 4.5 lb. balsa. I figured if I spent too much time and money on this bad boy, I probably wouldn't be willing to throw it like it needs to be thrown.
Mar 11, 2011, 01:37 PM
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I just had one of my best flying sessions ever, testing my new Radian Pro. The first two flights were pretty much testing how the airplane reacts to the 'full house' controls I programmed in last week. (And remembering how to fly an aileron bird!) I can turn on flap following aileron which seems to smooth out my pretty shaky use of ailerons, and I found that coupling that with half flaps really makes her easy to get into, and stay in, small thermals. I also programmed in crow. Surprisingly, the ailerons still seem to work okay in crow mode, at least as well as full flaps without crow, and maybe better!

The first flight was just making sure my new controls didn't cause any catastrophe, but there seemed to be a few thermal 'bumps.' On my second flight, what I thought was a fairly large hawk cruised by overhead, then turned to watch in response to my pathetic attempt to catch a small thermal down low. Short flight, but I brought the airplane in for a slow, slow landing right at my feet (I think I like these movable wing thingies!).

Then I thought I'd try a flight just for fun. 20 second motor run got me to an almost uncomfortable height, because with the slight breeze, the Radian went practically straight up, just veering off enough to park right in front of the sun. (My control when climbing under power is pretty pathetic!) Once I shut down the motor, I immediately cored a thermal and started riding it up and downwind, noticing two eagles flying formation at the top of probably the same thermal about a quarter mile down range. I nearly specked out the RadPro and turned her into the wind to come back my way, when three mature bald eagles flew between me and the airplane! I know we can't molest the eagles, but I was well above them, and they didn't seem to notice the rather odd, stiff winged interloper, so I kept flying, making it back overhead and found another thermal. As I turned, they obviously had noticed me, because all three started wheeling around under me. The two downwind eagles turned and cruised up to where I was flying, and the sixth, the bird I thought was a hawk came back, it turned out to be a juvenile bald eagle, and we were all sharing the same thermal! It was really difficult to keep my eyes on my airplane with all these majestic birds flying around so close! After a minute or two, the pack of three took off at high speed and it was apparent that two of them were going to be pairing up as soon as they could figure out which male lost the dating game! The thermal was strong (and the airplane has a lot of capability) and despite my heavy thumbs, I got the plane specked out again, and turned it back towards me. The juvenile started paralleling my flight path right underneath me, and then turned, looked at the Radian as if to say, "Didn't you feel that?" and cored a nice little thermal. I was able to get into that thermal (again, starting quite a bit higher up than the eagle) for a few minutes as he climbed past me, but then the juvenile was joined by what I suppose was the loser from the three pack, and they flew off together. I was left alone for a minute, and then the other birds started coming back out. A rather puzzled looking hawk flew over to check the Radian out, probably decided it was the biggest and ugliest sea gull it had ever seen, and headed over to the reeds to look for mice. After all that it was time to come back to earth (figuratively, and literally). I headed the airplane downwind, turned a 180 between two sets of trees, threw full flaps with crow and walked the airplane down to another landing right at my feet. It looked like I knew what I was doing! All in all, an incredible flight!

This Radian Pro is a real keeper. It seems to be a little slow in roll at thermaling speed, but once you get it into a bank and pull the elevator back a little, it will pretty much fly itself in the turn as long as you hold a little rudder. For the really tight turns I find I use a little opposite aileron. It seems to be able to core even small thermals by itself. Half flaps seems to help with small thermals, and full flaps/ crow makes landing it a piece of cake. One thing that had me a little worried was it's ability to beat back up wind (being foam, and having a pretty healthy cross section, I thought I might need to power it back.) Although the breezes weren't very strong this morning (about 5-7 mph at ground level, maybe 10-15 up in the thermal zone), it seems to be able to put it's nose down and get back overhead while still flying very efficiently. No power needed!

My only complaint so far is that being basically white, it can get pretty difficult to see once it gets up high and downrange against a bright sky, especially with the little bit of ground haze we had this morning. Of course, when I'm complaining that the airplane specks out too easily, I guess that's not too much of a negative!
Mar 11, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Hi Jim,

I enjoyed reading your report on flying with the eagles. That must have been a great time! I've got a severe case of cabin fever, and reading about your day in the sun really makes me want to get flying again.

Congrats on the great day.

Ryan Thompson
May 11, 2011, 06:49 PM
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Nice Report on the Radian Pro. I'm in the market for something new. I love the Radian and want something with a little more control.

BTW: AOPA had this link for the jet pack guy who just flew over the Grand Canyon.

May 12, 2011, 01:57 PM
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If your looking to move up to a higher performance e-glider I have a couple that might interest you: An Organic 2.5 and an Electron F5J. I also have several sailplanes both full-house and RES that I am willing to part with.

Bob J.
May 12, 2011, 02:14 PM
Scott Zastoupil
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I think Lee has a propless 2.5m Organic. If that is the case, I wonder if a e-fuse is available swap out. Or cut the nose and stuff a motor in.
May 12, 2011, 08:45 PM
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if you are interested I was thinking of selling my Renny 2m

Jul 03, 2011, 03:27 AM
crma0101 OXY rep/BK servo team
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NE Sailplanes

Anyone here in the glider group have issues ordering from NE Sailplanes? I order from them last year and my order was shipped in a week... This year I orderd a few Dymond 4.7 servos, a speed controller and a few other parts, it been over 2 months and the flying season is well under way, and still no news. The bad thing I have e-mailed them and called, and can not seem to get through, their phone is either busy, or you try to leave a message and it says their mail box is full. Just wondering if anyone heard they went out of business.

Now that I did some looking on the forums, seems a lot of people have the same issues...

If I need 4 dymond 4.7s anyone know the best place to buy a few?


Last edited by MDCramer; Jul 03, 2011 at 03:33 AM.
Jul 03, 2011, 06:50 AM
Registered User
I would just order them from Dymond Modelsport in Fla.; they're still in business. I've heard bad things about NES for a long time (years).

Aug 11, 2011, 11:35 AM
Scott Zastoupil
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Cheesehead Chuckfest Help Needed

Hey fellow Soarnuts. I'm looking for assistance with scoring at the contest Saturday Sept 3. Tom R. has done this in previous years. It's very easy to do. Sit in the shade and enter scores from cards into the scoring program. Contest starts at 9:30 am and ends ~4pm. Send me an email or post here if you can help. Thanks much!

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