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Jul 15, 2019, 08:49 AM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden
Hi Montag,

I forgot to reply to your post, I've attached some cameras to the Maxir/Ricco, as well as done some FPV from it, the battery being mounted on CF rods unfortunately makes it amplify the vibes of the heli (they are flexible, without much of any real damping qualities). So far my best results were attaching the camera to the tray between the landing gear with gyro tape (but of course, then the heli blocks the upper portion of the view).
Here is something I didn't think to ask before. Did you find flying FPV, particularly taking off and landing, hovering, and close-in flight, to be difficult with the Ricco? It seems like it would be difficult to hover precisely without the visual cues present from line-of-sight flight, since obviously these things aren't computer-stabilized like quads. Until I get the hang of it, I plan to fly with lots of wide-open space and probably try to get into forward flight pretty quickly after takeoff.

I've been flying helis for many years, so I'm sure it won't be a problem once I get the hang of it, but I want to make sure I avoid a spectacular failure the first few times.
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Jul 15, 2019, 09:48 AM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_cxz
I see you run the J2S tails, do they work better than CF at high HS ?
Thanks im_cxz,

Oddly, those aren't actually J2S, those are the original Y0272 stock shape tail blades, I run those instead of CF because I find them to be more in balance than the CF, and I like the visible white tail disc.

I did try J2S tails again when I first set the Ricco SE back up, I did a complete teardown and rebuild just to make sure that all the bearings were in good shape..

I'm actually only running 2500rpm headspeed, my previous experience on FB was that wasn't enough RPM for the J2S for the +/-15 deg of collective pitch I like to run (yes, I run +/-15 pitch, which is extreme, 12 would be plenty for 3D), but I was thinking with FBL there might be just enough reduction in head drag to allow them to work.

I've always liked the J2S profile and airfoil shape, they seem like they should be more efficient with their thinner chord and larger disc. The J2S do allow much higher gyro gains, but at least at 2500head/10500tail, they don't like to keep the tail completely in check at 15deg punchouts (it never blows out, but it does deviate more than I like).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP
It seems like it would be difficult to hover precisely without the visual cues present from line-of-sight flight, since obviously these things aren't computer-stabilized like quads. Until I get the hang of it, I plan to fly with lots of wide-open space and probably try to get into forward flight pretty quickly after takeoff.
Hi Montag, when I was flying my Maxir in FPV, I did find hovering very difficult unless right down on the deck (any general precision positioning was out of the question), but I think most of that was down to the narrow field of view camera I had at the time.

I've been tinkering with a blade Nano QX flying in autolevel and acro modes and find that with a wide fisheye camera you can get a lot of the relative motion feel, it just takes adjusting to.

I fly currently on my Samsung GearVR headset and a 5.8ghz usb video receiver, on the FPV app on my phone, I can adjust the size of the images (essentially the FOV). This part may seem counter-intuitive, but I actually don't like to fly it on max FOV (the GearVR has a wide FOV), I find it easier to hover with a smaller FOV and the fisheye image more compressed (because you don't have to move your eyes around to take in the full image, you can adjust to the feel of the drift). Lateral drift with a heading hold gyro is the easy part, the forward/aft, and height are the tricky ones.

One thing that did shock me, recently when flying around my Nano QX in FPV, is that I tend to switch to feeling like I am supposed to use Xbox first person shooter controls instead of proper mode 2 (but I think some of that may also be that I fly on an FrSky X9lite now, which is shaped like a console controller), so I kept trying to yaw with the right stick instead (aim in an FPS game).

-Kai
Jul 15, 2019, 09:59 AM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Thanks for your thoughts. I ordered this camera, which has a 135 degree diagonal FOV. Hopefully that will be wide enough for good control and awareness but not so wide that it looks distorted or requires a lot of eye movement. The goggles I got are fairly wide-angle too by FPV standards - 50 degrees.

Anyway, I'm really excited to get started. I've been wanting to do it for years, and it seems like now the price and technology are finally right. Can't stop daydreaming about it...
Jul 15, 2019, 10:09 AM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP
Thanks for your thoughts. I ordered this camera, which has a 135 degree diagonal FOV. Hopefully that will be wide enough for good control and awareness but not so wide that it looks distorted or requires a lot of eye movement. The goggles I got are fairly wide-angle too by FPV standards - 50 degrees.

Anyway, I'm really excited to get started. I've been wanting to do it for years, and it seems like now the price and technology are finally right. Can't stop daydreaming about it...
That sounds like a good start, I use a 120deg FOV 4:3 camera, and the GearVR is over 90deg, but I probably have it turned down to right around 50deg (yeah, most normal FPV headsets are from like 30 to 42deg).

-Kai
Jul 17, 2019, 04:59 PM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Had a setback this week, one of my cyclic servos misbehaved and ended up crunching my Ricco in midair, the fall to the street did a lot of damage, it was in a stationary maneuver so it didn't have any forward momentum, but the 20ft fall to the pavement hit sideways hard enough that it broke the CF boom and bent the frames into a Z shape (it actually totaled the blue alloy frames, one of them ripped near the motor mount).

I didn't have any more booms in the colors I like, so I went ahead and rebuilt using some 8mm OD, 6mm ID woven CF tube I picked up (oddly, for the Y-ufo first, but it was a 4 pack of 500mm length so figured might as well give it a shot). I forgot to weigh the new cut boom, but it is significantly heavier than the stock booms (1mm wall thickness instead of 0.5mm), but the new boom is rediculously rigid (and who can argue with the look of woven CF). I lucked out and the tube I got is consistent enough ID that the bearings are seating well in it without the bearing cups.

The new AUW with 4s900mah pack but lighter mainblades is 353gr, with 4s1200 it's 373gr, it's going to get a bit heavier still as I need to add more telemetry (there is a uBrain2 to frsky interface that will allow me to program all settings on my radio, and I have a 6gr frsky voltage sensor that I am tinkering with, it's the one with the OLED display though).

Oddly, I'm finding I'm liking flying it outdoors with the larger 4s1200 packs, the flight duration is incredible and the extra weight allows me to bump the tail gain up, it also handles wind better, I'm sure when indoor season starts back up in fall that I'll prefer the smaller packs for more float.

Does anyone have any experience with the Castle Creations Talon ESCs? I'm thinking about trying one out to drop some weight and get the voltage and RPM telemetry all in one go, it doesn't do current draw telemetry but I think I can live without it.

-Kai
Jul 17, 2019, 09:53 PM
Registered User
Kai, I love the CC on my 180CFX, it's been there since I got it, and no issues at all. Of course I have no experience with them on the Ricco, since I don't have one yet... I use the built in governor on it, resetting RPM's requires the Castle Link... an added expense, but worth it. The Talon has a very good rep in the 3 minute smack 3d world, and I would certainly trust it
Jul 18, 2019, 12:57 PM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Moyer
Kai, I love the CC on my 180CFX, it's been there since I got it, and no issues at all. Of course I have no experience with them on the Ricco, since I don't have one yet... I use the built in governor on it, resetting RPM's requires the Castle Link... an added expense, but worth it. The Talon has a very good rep in the 3 minute smack 3d world, and I would certainly trust it
Thanks Wayne,

Long ago I used to run PHX-10 ESCs on my Maxir (with an external switching BEC), I'm actually close to pulling the trigger on the CC Talon 15. But what's holding me up is that I'm still trying to figure out how well they work with the uBrain2.

The uBrain2 telemetry specs list that there is a 2500rpm limit to the RPM feed from the CC Talons, that would be fine for the Ricco I'm setting up for FPV, but for my 3D Ricco that's right below where I want to run it. I'll probably order one and tinker with it on my 2nd Ricco while I continue to fly my main 3D Ricco on it's YGE-18.

I actually have 2 Castle links, although they are old, I remember buying one, but I don't remember where I picked up the 2nd one, probably came with a trade.

-Kai
Jul 20, 2019, 08:57 PM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
I got all my FPV stuff and have it mostly set up. I was hoping to do the first flight this weekend, but the universe seems to be against me. First my lipo charger fried itself and no longer charges batteries. Now my soldering iron tip has finally worn down enough that it is pretty much useless. Both were really old and needing to be replaced anyway, but it just figures that they would both fail right when I was starting to get excited about flying again. Oh well, I'll just have to wait a little longer...
Jul 20, 2019, 10:32 PM
Registered User
I have dabbled in FPV freestyle with quad copters, it's really enjoyable, and I have mostly stopped crashing them unless I get overconfident and try to stuff it through a hole that is really not big enough for the speed I am going (they will really get moving... incredible really since my largest is 100mm) I have learned from this that 1) you want to move around slowly until you get a feel for it, 2) if you plan on not crashing you will need some sort of stability or rescue 3) it is really a blast, but I wouldn't risk any of my helis yet, even though I am now flying exclusively in acro mode.

Personally, I would recommend buying or better still, building a brushed quad kit for starters, and moving on from there. the beta fpv lite board is $10, it uses the bayang protocol, so if you have a 4 in 1 or deviated Devo you're set. $12 for the motors, $3-$5 for a frame, $20 camera, and bounce it off stuff with reckless abandon... you crash and generally pick it up, set it on it's feet and go some more. I fly the 65mm whoop style frame, with a betafpv canopy. they are nearly indestructible, protect the camera really well, and the 6mm motors are cheap. my 100mm x frame is much better in the wind, has 8.5mm motors, and is even faster. that one has a h-8 mini board flashed with silverware... it's great in open areas only. the tiny 65mm ducted fan style frame go all over inside my house. repairs are mostly blade and motor replacements... think MUCH cheaper than heli repairs. just my $.02
Jul 20, 2019, 11:48 PM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Yes, I'm definitely going to take it slow. I will probably start out with a few hops to get my bearings and see how that feels. Once I feel comfortable hovering, I'll try forward flight, which I assume should be easier. I will fly it carefully rather than with reckless abandon and hopefully not crash it too bad.
Jul 21, 2019, 10:13 PM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Just figured I would post a pic now that I have gotten the CF frames installed and the heli tuned in. It's down to 348gr AUW on 4s900 Hyperion G8 packs (10gr heavier when I have the beast bluetooth adapter on).

I tried using a CF driveshaft again, but ended up going back to my steel shaft. On the upside I have an extra CF boom built out now, ready for the build of the other Ricco.

I did have to alter some of the holes in the CF FBL frames, the upper canopy mount holes weren't even, and I had to locate the lower mainshaft bearing block lower (concerned with it moving, I changed those screws to long cross bolts with nylock nuts to hold it together under compression).

I also changed out to all new bearings throughout, I got 2 rcscrewz bearing kits so that I have plenty to work with on the other Ricco as well.

-Kai
Jul 21, 2019, 10:36 PM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Mine is all wired up and ready to go. I ended up mounting the camera on a plywood plate attached to the frame with the dampers Kai mentioned earlier (I'm not sure how effective the damping will be, but they also come in handy as spacers). AUW with a 3s 1050 mah battery and canopy is 455 g, but it started out on the porky side even before any of these mods at 390 g. Anyway, the extra mass might actually be welcome to slow things down when flying FPV. In the same vein, I am also flying the plastic blades. Probably won't be doing any 3D flying with this setup.

FPV stuff:
Foxeer Monster micro CMOS camera
Tramp HV VTx
ImmersionRC omnidirectional antenna
Fatshark Scout goggles

First FPV flight may be tomorrow evening or some other time this week, depending on how weather and kids' bed times work out. Even if I can't get to the park, I'll probably at least try to get some DVR footage around the neighborhood flying LOS.
Last edited by Montag DP; Jul 21, 2019 at 10:43 PM.
Jul 22, 2019, 07:36 AM
Registered User
Just to add something ,if vibes are still present ,try to make a longer upper plate as the camera is hanging a little too far from the dampers, increasing its workload.
Jul 22, 2019, 08:11 AM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanMartin
Just to add something ,if vibes are still present ,try to make a longer upper plate as the camera is hanging a little too far from the dampers, increasing its workload.
Yeah, I would have liked to extend the top plate farther, but the landing gear is in the way. Hopefully this setup should be sufficient, but we'll see. If not I'll probably just shorten the bottom plate a bit.
Jul 22, 2019, 12:10 PM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
Kai_Shiden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP
Yeah, I would have liked to extend the top plate farther, but the landing gear is in the way. Hopefully this setup should be sufficient, but we'll see. If not I'll probably just shorten the bottom plate a bit.
Hi Montag,

You could extend the plate around the landing gear by cutting it U shaped, with the open section of the U facing forward, the prongs going around the LG, that way you could have the dampers spread around the camera (I think ideal would be to have the dampers surrounding the camera).

Also, it wasn't clear when I posted it that the dampers are meant to be captured by the plate, drill oversize holes and squeeze the dampers into the plate (same way that a grommet goes into a hole) then capture bolts/nuts just keep the grommet/dampers from coming back through the holes.

I've attached a picture from Amazon for a flight controller damping mount that I like the design of, I like that it mounts the dampers at 45deg angles inward (that should reduce yaw flex by invoking compression during twist motions).

Edit: Just had a different thought, instead of using plywood, you could use piano wire to bend something up (I actually already have the same dampers), I'll see if I still have adequately sized wire and see if I can make something as a test. I kind of want to just throw my existing camera on my Ricco, not to fly FPV with yet, but to see how nauseating it is to watch piroflips from FPV, lol, I also want to test to see what some different ways of mounting the camera could be and if I can get the video to be vibe free.

-Kai
Last edited by Kai_Shiden; Jul 22, 2019 at 12:27 PM. Reason: had a different thought


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