Thread Tools
May 13, 2001, 05:41 PM
Registered User
Far4nugn's Avatar
Thread OP

NSP Filip-E or FVK Bandit? Help!


Hey guys, I _need_ a mini-hotliner...

Considering the NSP Slope Filip-E (RG15 flat-wing) with cobalt 400, 480 or Jeti brushless. or... The FVK Bandit sold by among others, Parkflyers.com (Marky's Hobbies). Bandit would be set up with a 480, 05 or maybe a Jeti Brushless.

I want at least 80MPH level and something that will really track well for nice large aerobatics. I know there's been a lot of talk about the Filip-E, but I havent heard any flight results yet. NSP has/had a weekly special this week for the Filip-E for $99 (uncovered). The Bandit costs $169 from Parkflyers.com, but ther is no info about the model on their site except "128MPH" whatever that means.

Anyone with some flying experience with either of these, I'd like some suggestions!

Thanks,
Scott

Clear Skies!

Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
May 13, 2001, 07:07 PM
Registered User
Andy W's Avatar
Get the Bandit.
It will not do 128MPH, however. The Smart (Hobby Lobby) is only coming in around 100, it seems (F10/15x15/8 Zapped 2000's)..
..a
May 13, 2001, 09:48 PM
Registered User
Far4nugn's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks Andy. I finally found the specs of this plane at Aero-model.com. They are running a 19T Car motor on 4.4 gears with a 14X9.5 prop.

BTW, They claim 128MPH in a "vertical dive"...Thats fine with me...especially at the price!

Anyone with a flight report on either plane?

Thanks
May 13, 2001, 10:15 PM
sal
sal
I used to carry the Bandit. Nice sailplane...for Europeans. The ailerons are too small, the airfoil is too fat. I like to see my sailplanes turn. When we get a products from overseas it is remade to our specs. Both the bandit and the Filip E are in the sport class. You want fast get a Falcon or a Flash E still reasonable price go fast too.

The Filip E is a 60" sailplanes with RG 15 airfoil, basically setup like a slope racer. This means high manueverability and low drag.

Flown both the bandit and the Filip on the slope. (this is a true test of the fastest airframe). There is no contest. This is not very surprising when you look at the planforms.

Any sailplane electric or slope under 60" span will just barely go over 125mph heavily ballasted in a long dive. At 60" span the speeds can strt to go up. You want really fast you have to get high aspect ratio at 66" plus.
May 13, 2001, 11:35 PM
Registered User
francois's Avatar
Uhh, according to the www.aero-model.com site the new bandit has an RG14...which is thinner and lower camber than the RG15 of the filip-e.

I can't make a comment on the handling aspects of either airplane since I have not flown either nor seen the size of the ailerons on the filip. As for the planforms it is hard to make a good call based on looks alone...well okay you can but it's not always accurate...twist and or airfoil changes (intended or not) can change the lift distributions. I'd trust sal's flight comparisons here though I'd be cautious to apply the generalization that planform looks can be used to eval performance.

I do have one objection....higher AR does not necessarily give you higher dive speeds (terminal velocity). Dive speed is completely independant from induced drag....it is all profile/skin friction losses. Ever see a fuselage fly without a wing...massive terminal velocity. Since AR tends to drive skin friction and profile losses up...unless compensated by good foil design...I dunno if higher AR actually results in higher dive speeds.

Strictly speaking this is for vertical dives where there is no lift component..which I admit isn't quite realistic. A higher AR design will dominate in any situation where large amounts of lift are required ie hard turns. Also the added benefit of high AR is you can see the plane a lot higher up which means more energy for high speed passes.

Anyways my new airplane that's under design work will have an extreme AR. Gotta see if it'll prove to be a worthwill F5F ship.

May 14, 2001, 07:57 AM
Registered User
Far4nugn's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks for the comments!

Would it be possible to fit an 05 size motor in the nose of the Filip? Could it carry the weight? I'm thinking I really need a brushless in my hotliner and I'd like to use one of the new Jeti's since they're cheap and somewhat versatile (though not as versatile as an Aveox for example).

I'm still leaning towards the Bandit at this point. I havent ordered either yet, but my wallet is burning.

May 14, 2001, 10:13 AM
sal
sal
When I speak of planform, I am not speaking of "look". What I am speaking about is the shape of the wing and how this compares to efficiency. The Bandit may be called an RG 14 but from experience I do not believe that the airfoil is carried out accurately of perhaps calling the airfoil an RG 14 is innaccurate. As I have said the Bandit is a nice enough sailplane. It might be the way to go as we currently are sold out of Filip E's and will have the next batch of 50 in two weeks.

[This message has been edited by sal (edited 05-14-2001).]
May 14, 2001, 10:43 AM
Registered User
Sal,

I received a Filip E just last week and am very pleased with the quality of the plane. Can you tell me a little about what I can expect with regards to landing this little bugger? How long will it take to slow down? How slow can I get? I bought both a geared Promax Cobalt and a DD version. Still haven't made up my mind which one to use. Any suggestions appreciated.
May 14, 2001, 01:18 PM
Registered User
francois's Avatar
Sal,

I'm not argueing with you that that filip-e planform may be better than the bandit. I understand the definition of planform.

But I'd just like to state for the "non-aero informed" out there that just by looking at the planform ie triple/double/quad taper you can't tell performance. Only a vortex lattice code with inputs for airfoils can accurately give you lift distributions. John Hazel's LiftDist Spreadsheet is really nice but it doesn't do this automatically.

As for the Bandit's airfoil accuracy, I cannot comment here since I have never seen one in person.

Personally IMO I'd buy a filip if it weren't a speed 400 hotliner. IMHO you need at least a speed 500-600 for performance I want to see. Brushless makes sense but drives the cost up. Then again maybe I have been spoiled by flying F5B type airplanes too much. Time to get my 24 cell limit back together for flying season.

-Bernard

May 14, 2001, 10:10 PM
sal
sal
Quote:
Originally posted by Sotos:
Sal,

I received a Filip E just last week and am very pleased with the quality of the plane. Can you tell me a little about what I can expect with regards to landing this little bugger? How long will it take to slow down? How slow can I get? I bought both a geared Promax Cobalt and a DD version. Still haven't made up my mind which one to use. Any suggestions appreciated.
The Filip will slow down nicely. I would recommend using spoilerons for landing control if your radio will do it. I have mentiuoned the proper setup for this type of control and how to achieve the proper approach and landing. You should be able to find this in the E-zone. If not give me a call and I will be glad to go over this with you personally. Go geared for climb then folded prop for powerless aerobatics an fun. Go direct drive for Hotliner style with more power on manuevers but less climbing ability.
May 15, 2001, 08:21 PM
Registered User
Sal,

I found your previous post on landing and I'm glad I did as I surely would have been tempted to use flaperons instead of spoilerons. Can't wait to try this out (up high first, to be sure). Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge.

Sotos
Jun 23, 2001, 11:34 AM
Registered User
Kevin Murray's Avatar
Scott, Have you got one yet ? Did you decide on the Bandit ?

Sotos - Would you mind posting the link to Sals post on flaperons vs. spoilerons.

Thanks, Kevin
Jun 23, 2001, 07:45 PM
Registered User
Kevin....

Sorry, but I searched and searched and could not re-find Sal's post explaining the benefits of spoilerons over flaperons. I know they were re-vamping the server last week, so perhaps some of the older messages are no longer in the archives.

Perhaps someone with extensive experience regarding spoileron usage could post a small treatise. AndyW discussed spoilerons briefly here... http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/Forum13/HTML/001008.html

HTH
Jun 23, 2001, 08:41 PM
Registered User
Far4nugn's Avatar
Thread OP
Kevin, I havent. I decided I wasnt sure enough of what I wanted to order one... But funny you should ask because I was just getting out my wallet to order a Bandit.

I've been doing calculations in Motocalc, and I've come up with this drive:

Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem
HL 3.3:1 planetary
13X11 folder
12X800AR cells

With this setup MC estimates:

AUW:42 Oz
W/Lb:130.6
WL:17 Oz/ft2
Thrust(static):71.7 Oz
Pspeed:63.7 MPH
Climb Rate:2778 ft/min @90deg's
Full-Throttle time: 4:50 @77mph(level)
Amps(FT-static):38.4
Amps(FT-level):11.2
SysEff(FT-level):78.6%

I think the MM can handle these parameters (at least for a while). Sounds like a killer to me. I think if I play w/ the prop a bit I could get a higher level speed, but this would be a good starting point. MC says you could fly it on 10 cells and still get vertical climb, with longer run-times (and less stress).


I'll keep you posted!




[This message has been edited by Far4nugn (edited 06-23-2001).]
Jun 23, 2001, 09:30 PM
MotoCalc Developer
stefanv's Avatar
Careful. I've heard it said that it's unwise to run 3-pole ferrite motors on more than 10 cells.

Stefan


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools