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Aug 24, 2008, 10:33 PM
Fly2Build.com
scratchnhover's Avatar
Thread OP
Discussion

Scratch-build-off III contest starts TODAY- ARE YOU IN???


Pat, DJM, and Charlie were discussing today whether or not another build off is scheduled to take place and the future of the contest. To catch you up, Charlie mentioned "If there is a BO III, I won't be doing it. My day job has gotten a lot more hectic so can't devote as much time to other stuff." I would once again like to thank Charlie for sponsoring the first two contests and appreciate the investment he has made with his time and resources to ensure their success.

So that all thoughts can be together, this thread was started and it would be great to hear all thoughts on the subject from everyone interested.

Here are my initial thoughts:

First and foremost, we need to provide an incentive to participate. The first build off had exactly that in a couple different forms. First, Charlie was able to offer free parts for everyone who sent in cut files. This was obviously a great offer and probably the single greatest reason to participate. Secondly, there was the promise of prizes. I don't remember what they were now but they were nice. Third was the excitement of the number of guys participating and the thrill of maybe winning among the company of a vast field of participants.

As far as a sponsor (like what Manzano did) is concerned, I think it would be best to offer free parts cutting in the following way: Each participant pays the going rate for their parts when they are cut, and obtains free parts ONLY by completing the model to the point where flight is at least attempted. A picture of either a crash or in flight shot would be emailed in with a copy of their receipt for an in-store credit for the full amount paid (or cash rebate at the discretion of the sponsor- maybe 50% cash back or similar). This would not only be a nice incentive, but it would help the sponsor obtain what they would like to get which is fresh, new models to market.

Second, prizes would be great. I know times are tough, but I think prizes would be furnished by companies if there was guaranteed mention of advertising and hopefully business from build-off participants.

Third, the promise of magazine publication would be great. The contest director would need to contact various magazines ahead of the contest and arrange a deal for publication of the winners. This would be a nice incentive to complete your model and to tackle a difficult subject to gain the most votes.

My experience in the build-off was that it was an excellent incentive to complete what I had begun within the contest period. I know I would have never finished when I did without the contest, but that also brought its own share of problems as well with the committment made. For this reason, the contest should be done over a minimum 6 month period with at least a few months prior of planning allowed. If there is to be one this next building season, it needs to start 12/1 and end 5/31 again.

Well, enough from me. Let's hear from you.

OFFICIAL CONTEST RULES HERE.
Mike
Last edited by scratchnhover; Nov 29, 2008 at 11:17 AM.
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Aug 24, 2008, 11:01 PM
Registered User
E-Challenged's Avatar
Just some suggestions, the next contest could have a theme like "Golden Age" or maybe "Post WWII" with subcategories for racing planes, aerobatic planes, private planes, transport planes, and homebuilts. Another idea could be "famous aerobatic planes of the 30's through the present". Another idea could be "famous record attempt planes of the 20s and 30s".
Aug 24, 2008, 11:19 PM
↓↘→ + (punch)
theKM's Avatar
The free cutting from Charlie was unbelievably generous and I think unique to that round.

I reckon that a contest only has to be started... those who will, will, those who wont, wont. The first contest started because people were there and building anyway... what's wrong with that?

Any project at all can get into a magazine, they just need to have an interesting subject and be willing to ask the magazines. The models worthy of winning these contests are far more than good enough to get into a magazine. I also think it'd be low hanging fruit of nice content if a magazine were to make an article about the contest itself... get lots of interesting build pics across the entire range of entrants, etc.


I do think that the whole "theme" should be dropped, because that's limiting in itself... no "multi-motor only" kind of thing. Just start a contest for building scale planes and it'll all fall into place, including sponsors. I know of one motor manufacturer that would be willing to drop a motor or two into it.

Heck... if no sponsors come to the party, I'll throw in $200 of my own money to the winner if there's more than a half dozen entrants and if three of those fly.

There we go, we now have a contest.
Aug 24, 2008, 11:39 PM
Dog is my co-pilot.
mrdj's Avatar
I also had an idea or two:

Movie planes.

Planes must be from a movie (or even TV)
Have three categories:

Stock : Regular airplanes from a movie, where changes were no more than the paint.
Ex- The Vulcan from Thunderball or a Concorde from one of the Airport movies, and for more vintage fans, anything from Divebomber.

Modified : A bit more cosmetic work, including extra fairings, spinners etc...
Ex- Zeros from Tora Tora Tora, (Harvards) Blue Thunder (Gazelle),

Original : Specific to the movie
Ex- Firefox, The Phoenix

My examples are limited by the films I've seen, so I know I'm neglecting the golden age stuff.

Some may not have flown other than on film, so there will be extra r&d. This would give a variety of opportunities, and would require balance in choice and execution. Building an ARF Corsair and painting it from Baa Baa Blacksheep is quick, but shouldn't get as many votes as a scratch-built fighter from Stealth, from the builders own plans, if it is finished in time.

Just to throw it out there, it has been brewing in the back of my head for a while. If nothing else, its a great chance to watch a whole bunch of really great films.

I also would like to put out thanks to Charlie. I can relate to the busy schedule. My B.O II entry was put off by the birth of our 1st kid. An entirely worthwhile construction project.
Aug 25, 2008, 12:08 AM
Fly2Build.com
scratchnhover's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM
Heck... if no sponsors come to the party, I'll throw in $200 of my own money to the winner if there's more than a half dozen entrants and if three of those fly.

There we go, we now have a contest.
Wow, that's very generous Aaron BTW, your and Tram's podcast was a great launch and your accent is cool, dude.

I will gladly organize the event and moderate the forum, if there is interest, since I won't be entering a design this go-around.

E-Challenged- It's funny you mentioned what you did as I thought the Golden Age would be a neat period as well to model. That being said, Arron makes a good point of not limiting the field of participation to encourage all genres. There could still be general "scale" rules and the two categories (amateur and pro) but other than that, why limit the field?

Mrdj- good, original idea!
Aug 25, 2008, 12:52 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Having a narrowly defined subject, I feel, puts many people off. While Golden Age, racers etc are popular with some, that would be a disincentive for many (including me ) If any restriction is applied it could be 'between the wars' or post WW2 etc. I also think the military or non-military thing is a turn-off for many - the aim should be to improve our design/modelling skills.

Perhaps - and it is a BIG perhaps, a sub-category for those who did not manage a successful incident-free landing in the allocated time. Many fine models had to pull out because although almost complete, did not qualify. Just thinking out loud

Pat
Latest blog entry: 2019 Already.....
Aug 25, 2008, 01:03 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchnhover
Wow, that's very generous Aaron BTW, your and Tram's podcast was a great launch and your accent is cool, dude.
I'm sure we could find time to have the winner on the show and they could be touted as a winner in the public eye..


Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com
Aug 25, 2008, 05:57 AM
Registered User
RyanPSU21's Avatar
We did the kitbuilding buildoff last season as well. Perhaps that category could be combined here this year. For the kit building contest there were initially no sponsors or prizes. The prizes were a great addition but I think a lot of us would have done it anyways just for adding some fun to the winter building competition. Perhaps for a prize all the participants could pay an entry fee of like $5 or something and the winner would get the money at the end.

For some of us slow builders the 12/1 starting date is kind of restricted. Perhaps it could be made more like 10/1 or 11/1 to give a little more time for those that aren't speedy.

It seemed that there may have been too many categories last year with very few entrants in the single engine category and in general everyone going for multimotors. Perhaps the category listing could go something like:

Designer Pro
Designer Amateur
Non Designer Kit built
Non Designer Plan Built
Aug 25, 2008, 06:39 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
I agree with Ryan. just 4 catagories with no restriction to what plane it is. Time limit is good though. Lets keep it simple and get people building again. I think that everyone that entered the contest had fun and would be willing to give it a run again. I would evn jump in to the contest. A $5 entry fee would be nothing compared to what we put into the planes, or could perhaps win if we were voted top plane. I do however think we should draw a line on extreeme detailing of scale planes. Going overboard with too much detail can also kill a build. Great for a show circut, but for a 5 month build just too much.
Last edited by CapMike; Aug 25, 2008 at 08:22 AM.
Aug 25, 2008, 07:39 AM
Expat Canuck
Milhafre's Avatar
These contests have been great for me—they have pushed me into doing things that I had thought about for years, but never actually done. The first build-off produced my first own-design scale model and the second, my first ever twin.

There have been posts here advocating more restriction on the design and others advocating less. It seems that the 'less' camp offers much more choice for the builder, but becomes a real problem when it comes to judging. We are already into an apples and oranges situation—how do you chose between a Zeppelin-Staaken XIV “R” Bomber and a Savoia Marchetti S65—planes at the very opposite ends of any scale.

Judging becomes purely subjective—is this a good or bad thing?

Ideally there could be a system that awards points for various criteria: choice of design; simplicity of build; quality of finish; flying qualities, and the winner would be the builder with the highest points total. Unfortunately the RC Groups polling system does not support this approach.

I don't know the answer, I just wanted to say that the hardest part of these contests is not the building; it's the judging.

No matter what, bring on another contest and I am sure I shall enter!

Roly
Aug 25, 2008, 08:00 AM
Two left thumbs
Since I'm still slowly plugging away at my entries from last time, I'll sit this one out, but would love to see what you talented guys come up with!{Edit} I changed my mind - what's left of it!

Since I can't figure out how to use CAD, free cutting would do nothing for me.



Very slow Geoff
Last edited by GeoffinIN; Sep 06, 2008 at 08:45 PM.
Aug 25, 2008, 08:21 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhafre
There have been posts here advocating more restriction on the design and others advocating less. It seems that the 'less' camp offers much more choice for the builder, but becomes a real problem when it comes to judging. We are already into an apples and oranges situation—how do you chose between a Zeppelin-Staaken XIV “R” Bomber and a Savoia Marchetti S65—planes at the very opposite ends of any scale. Roly

This would drive people to either design something or find an old obscure model to build instead of the run of the mill average Mustang, Spit, FW, or Zero. I know I will be throwing my hat into the ring with something I would have designed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhafre
Judging becomes purely subjective—is this a good or bad thing?Roly

Wasn't the past contest purely subjective? We voted for the planes we liked the most. And we voted for ones that were new and creative for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhafre
Ideally there could be a system that awards points for various criteria: choice of design; simplicity of build; quality of finish; flying qualities, and the winner would be the builder with the highest points total. Unfortunately the RC Groups polling system does not support this approach. Roly

I am sure that polling can be done with the parameters you have just stated this would then be decided by the Judges in perhaps a top 3.



Roly[/QUOTE]
Aug 25, 2008, 08:29 AM
Dog is my co-pilot.
mrdj's Avatar
While I can understand the idea of openness in the contest, I can still see the merits of some limitation.

It puts the model in a context. I find that this make the contest less overwhelming.

It pushes the builder to do something new. Several people in the first contest had never designed before, and learned lots. I'm sure some in the second contest had never seriously considered a multi before, and now aremore diverse because they tried.

I enjoy the research. Lookin up something that fits the contest and my likes and abilities is part of the fun.

I'm not suggesting too much limitation, but I think a general direction would be helpful.

DJM
Aug 25, 2008, 08:43 AM
It must have a machinegun
Scaledown's Avatar
Personally I don't care about prizes, I just enjoy the participation and having others read my thread.
I agree that the number of categories should be kept to a minimum so there is enough competition, and I agree with mrdj that having a theme makes people try something they might not otherwise have done and learn more.

Keeping the timeframe down makes the build simpler. There's innovation required to get a scale look with a minimum of parts. Less tears if it crashes too.
Aug 25, 2008, 08:56 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaledown
Personally I don't care about prizes, I just enjoy the participation and having others read my thread.
I agree that the number of categories should be kept to a minimum so there is enough competition, and I agree with mrdj that having a theme makes people try something they might not otherwise have done and learn more.

Keeping the timeframe down makes the build simpler. There's innovation required to get a scale look with a minimum of parts. Less tears if it crashes too.
Oh so true. I for one will be in tears if my XF-12 doesn't make it through its maiden. And I will be screaming at all that can hear me if I dont get it finished in time for NEAT


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