FAA Regulation of Recreational Model Aircraft - Page 24 - RC Groups
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Dec 11, 2011, 11:30 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
From everything disclosed to date amateur model aircraft would be exempt from UAS regulations, which one could assume is why AMA is not participating in current discussions of the regulations. The big unknown is the to be determined definition of amateur model aircraft but I think we know pretty much what to expect.
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Dec 11, 2011, 06:03 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
Section 5 bothers me... They'll be exempt, but getting their own set. Don't know how it will fit with the NPRM.
Dec 12, 2011, 10:34 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
I expect a hard separation between the two categories will be defined by those amateur model rules. Bye bye gray areas.
Dec 19, 2011, 04:05 AM
Registered User
Toysrme's Avatar
Originally Posted by Daemon
Here's the strange thing about that. I know of several (at least 3 off the top of my
head) local AMA insured RC fields that are relatively close to active airports.
Two of them within spitting distance (3.4-5 miles) of the largest airport (area-wise) in the US.
AMA sanctioned thermal duration contests are held at one regularly throughout the
year, and they fly 3+meter planes to the limits of visibility (over a mile). Airport
knows they're there and they work around each other although direct
communication between RC fields and airport is rare. While I'm obviously
not advocating flying FPV planes into full-scale traffic patterns, one has to be
careful saying FPV planes can't be flown near full scale airports, because it's
already common practice for many others in the RC world to do it, and it would
not surprise me if AMA insured RC fields end up being the only place FPV piloting
is still legal after the new sUAS regs come out.

I suppose one way to structure the self rules would be.. If you're *not* at an AMA
field operating under their specific guidelines then don't fly within X miles of an airport
without the permission of the tower (there is precedent for that).

I can do you one better. At the Gadsden, AL airport. The airport itself was used as an RC Field for about 20 years (through the turn of the century), holding many R/C Pattern, Fun-Fly & Combat events during the year. with the simple rule being "fly short of the actual runway".
I don't like the cover all "Don't fly within X distance of an airport". I know R/C fields that would be currently illegal under said regulations & in many cases you can get into "why is an aircraft flying outside of traffic/runway patterns under building & terrain heights" in our local cases.

ya, i'd expect a big separation with "hobby" type equipment too.
Jan 11, 2012, 04:33 PM
Just thought I'd post something that I found pretty absurd. Watch this video 8:04-12:04.
AMA & FAA Discussion Forum Chapter 4 of 6 (13 min 43 sec)

Firstly I want to take the AMA out of the discussion topic entirely. Now...

I think its pretty messed up that any organization can lobby to get
exceptions to FAA laws and regulation then turn around and sell those
exceptions for profit. It's like legalized bribery, I'll pay you $XXX so that I can
get in on the deal you made with the government to ignore these laws.

Yes, yes, I realize that any "organization" can get their own standards
passed. But it would require significant time and money to make that happen
and all that effort would be just so you didn't have to buy someone else's
exceptions. And only one extremely large organization, which is not part of
the discussion topic at hand, has actually started to work with the FAA to get
a set of alternate standards (that fact was mentioned sometime in the video

Any thoughts guys?

Jan 11, 2012, 04:54 PM
FPV Browncoat
prelator's Avatar
What they're talking about isn't paying to use the standard, but paying for the text of the standard itself. It does sound screwed up, though in the legal context it's actually not that uncommon for privately drafted laws to remain under copyright to the organization that drafted them. The Uniform Commercial Code, for example is copyrighted and owned by the American Law Institute, dispute the fact that every state has adopted some variety of it and it forms the basis for just about every type of commercial transaction in the United States. The text of an individual state's version is likely in the public domain, but the current official version is published and copyrighted by the ALI, and my law school text books actually have to pay a license fee to publish it.

I admit though that in this context, it seems particularly stupid for the AMA to insist on asserting copyright ownership over the standard and actually sell its text. For one thing, there's no way they'll be able to enforce it. As soon as the standard comes out its text will be all over the net, including I'm sure this forum. Unless the AMA wants to waste its time constantly sending takedown notices against people who post the standard online, there's really no point in trying to sell copies of it or assert a copyright over it at all. Second, even if they did want to, if the AMA is really all about safety as they claim, wouldn't they want ALL modelers to follow the new standard? Making people pay to read it is totally contrary to their broader goal of promoting safe model aviation.
Jan 11, 2012, 05:21 PM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
Watching the vid now.
Jan 11, 2012, 05:42 PM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
I don't see how a standard can be accepted by the FAA but not available from the FAA.

Jan 11, 2012, 05:45 PM
Registered User
AN standards are accepted by the FAA but not available from them. It's just like NFPA standards are accepted by every paid fire department in the United States, but you have to go directly to NFPA to get them, and they'll charge you a pretty penny (hence the standing joke that NFPA stands for "No Free Publications Anytime").
Jan 11, 2012, 06:08 PM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
Oh, I understand that it is done all the time... just can't believe it's done!
Jan 11, 2012, 06:45 PM
Team White Llama!
gundamnitpete's Avatar
after watching these videos, i;'m pretty well in the camp that we are screwed.
Jan 11, 2012, 06:53 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
ASTM is doing the same thing...
Jan 11, 2012, 06:54 PM
Registered User
It is easy to wildly speculate on the vague mentions here but the thing that stands out most to me is when Lin mentions that they want to capture/understand what it is that modelers have been doing for the past 75 years to make modeling safe.

In short it just sounds like they want to halt any advancement or change in the current paradigm of flying model airplanes... FPV is a huge paradigm shift... Well looks like we have at least another year before it becomes law...
Jan 11, 2012, 07:06 PM
Team White Llama!
gundamnitpete's Avatar
AMA & FAA Discussion Forum Chapter 6 of 6 (8 min 49 sec)

3:48 to 4:04 thanks trappy

even though she got it wrong, lol.
Jan 11, 2012, 07:10 PM
FPV Browncoat
prelator's Avatar
Makes me glad I decided not to post the video of when my plane lost video last week, landed itself, and bounced into someone's bike. Even though it's absolutely hilarious....

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