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Mar 08, 2019, 02:21 AM
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Ok. I have 2 pcs Freewing 64/12 /3s. Yes, the sound and the power are really great. But I decided to make a light setup first. When i feel the plane can fly more weight I'll use the Freewing Edfs. The weight difference between this two setups is +- 200g/7oz.
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Mar 25, 2019, 09:06 PM
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Light weight is best. Last flight with mine l had a bad outing and crashed her fairly hard. Dont know if i'll try another.

But if l do it would be a single 64mm 12 b flying wing . by joining the 2 outter wing panels with the nacelle centered. Then maybe a raised t tail of vanes in thee exhaust some how. But at power off nuetral ballance and flys glider like
Sure l will
Last edited by Alpea 43; Mar 25, 2019 at 11:44 PM.
Apr 28, 2019, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpea 43
Light weight is best. Last flight with mine l had a bad outing and crashed her fairly hard. Dont know if i'll try another.

But if l do it would be a single 64mm 12 b flying wing . by joining the 2 outter wing panels with the nacelle centered. Then maybe a raised t tail of vanes in thee exhaust some how. But at power off nuetral ballance and flys glider like
Sure l will
Oh sorry for that crash. I wonder of your single edf setup. Are you working on that already?

I finally decided to use the FMS 50 11b unit. With a weight of 75g and a thrust of 680g / 3s it could be ok. In addition, the sound is amazing and important to me especialy with this awesome plane. I have the 64mm nacelles kit so i will cut them to 50mm.
Last edited by Deadguy; Apr 28, 2019 at 10:51 AM.
May 02, 2019, 12:03 AM
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Started working on a GWS262 that I got from the LHS that wanted it gone. Always wanted to build one of these that wasn't heavy. The key will be not needing much if any more battery than necessary for the EDF50 fans powered by 12mm Feigaos w/heatsink (around 3s-1300). The stock build tends to like a CG further forward than GWS originally speced, requiring a sizeable lipo + possible ballast. The tail servos will probably be relocated further forward.

A major lightening point is obviously the fans. To get the benefit of the light weight fans, the nacelles were extended forward to scale length, to mount the fans forward. I used the exhaust ends of an old nacelle set I had from my old 262 that suffered a brown out, where the fuse was resculpted for a Macchi M33 build. The extended nacelle fronts are covered with Microlite covering. The internal ducting is ultra light weight vellum paper, seamed using CA. Standard paper weighs. Exhaust exit rings are made from thin 0.005" sheet plastic, as plastic weighs also. About 4.5 grams of unnecessary foam was cut away from the nacelle mounting surfaces. No need to attach to the wing that firmly with more area than needed, with the much lighter fans and internal ducting. Final weight of each completed nacelle with fan and harnessing is 74.2 grams, which is a bit lighter than a single EDF55 with a short can 370BL inrunner with heatsink. Should be a good bit lighter than the long can 370 inrunners and EDF64 fans that the model used.

Done in the past is using a single P25 ESC with the fans. The gear came from my older AR234 build which I scrapped, now that I have a much more scale like AR234 build using the GP 30mm fans. The ESC works well without cooling at the current level of the 2 small fans, and can be mounted in the fuse. Mounting in the forward fuse area will use it's weight as useful nose weight. I've used the TBird 6, 9, 18, and P10, and 25 with twin inrunner EDF setups without issue. A single P25 held up in a scratch build ME262 I had years ago with EDF55 fans and 370-4100kv BL inrunners.
May 06, 2019, 08:44 PM
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Shaving weight on this tail heavy model with a balsa stab reinforcer. The CF glass rod they supply is both build to crash and brick heavy. Should have staggered the center joint on the balsa reinforcer to allow a bit more room for the internal elevator torque arm, but I got it working slop free with a 0.032" pushrod fitting perfectly into a Dubro #2-56 rigging point pin. Pencil points to where foam will be cut out, up to the balsa reinforcer in the stab, for torque arm clearance. Grind a flat on the joiner bar, tighten, and then flood the joint with thin CA so it doesn't work loose. The joiner bar is less wide than the stock bar and uses thinner gauge wire than the stock bar, shaving weight. The internal linkage doesn't add much weight with a small 1/32" ply mounting plate. The small piece of foam cut out from the rear of the fin was temporarily glued back in, after inserting the linkage rod in the fin, so I don't break the fin off while handling the fuse half. The pushrod wire used is all 0.032" versus the GWS supplied that is about 0.039", and the tail servos have been relocated in front of the CG.

The heavy, glass rod rear wing spar has been replaced with a CF hair laminated balsa spar, reducing aft weight on the model. (Last pic)
Not photographed is the heavy front glass wing reinforcing rods, that were replaced with 1/8" wooden dowel rod. Much lighter. The hardwood dowel rod seems to come in grades from heavy spruce weight to lighter weight basswood weight. The rods I used are toward the lighter end of the various weights that the LHS had. GWS supplies heavy decal material to cover the reinforcing rod channels in the foam wing. I used Microlite iron-on covering, which is lighter and does not dry out or peel off over time, like decals can do. Also ran a strip about 15mm wide along the bottom of the nacelles, for grass landing.

The steerable/removable nose gear uses a plug in friction fit for removable gear, using fuel tubing captured inside the aluminum tubing to secure the strut wire. Scuffing and then coating the end of the wire with a rough finger rubbed coat of CA enhances the friction grip, and can also be used to thicken the wire diameter for a tighter fit if necessary. I don't plan on using LG and the mains will be removable also, but the main gear wires will be fabricated a bit shorter as a ME262 low rider, since the nose gear strut is mounted shorter than stock. Saves on gear wire weight, if the gear is ever used.

Not shown in the photos is foam removed below the rear cocpit area behind the seat, and the original servo molded foam mounts. The small section of foam behind the servo in the 3rd pic that looks like a divider wall was also removed. It was intended as a steering pushrod sleeve support, when built stock. A few grams of weight shaved has a payoff, as the CG ended up being set at the desired 70mm setting without ballast. Without removing that foam, a few grams of nose ballast would have been required. It all adds up.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming of guessing at what FW will come out with next. See you on page 2 of the forum by the morning.
Last edited by AntiArf; Jun 07, 2019 at 10:48 PM. Reason: add wing spar info
May 22, 2019, 03:35 PM
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Finished the model balanced at 70mm from the front wing-to-fuse seam using a Turnigy 3s-1.8 and no ballast. The aft weight lightening and nacelle lengthening efforts paid off, as this tends to be a tail heavy model. The model could easily fly with a 3oz lipo versus approximately 5oz, which is the challenge with building a lighter, lower powered version of this model. The 23.5oz AUW with battery seems reasonable, given that a 50% T/W ratio should be fine with a slightly under 13oz wing loading, and figuring in the cubic loading. I calculated the wing area at a few square inches less than the GWS figure, as they tend to be a bit optimistic. Actually there's was pretty close, considering some listed wing area specs that are far more than reality. Thrust feels good for the setup, with the clean ducts and no ESCs in the path. The 25A single Castle Phoenix ESC has been proven, as it flew with these fans in an AR234, and in a ME262 scratch build many years ago with EDF55/Himax 2015-5300 fans.

The wing and stab leading edges, as well as the wing saddle LE and TE, and the fuse front have a wipe of epoxy, as foam tends to wear on those vulnerable surfaces. I spent a bit of time filling and sanding a few spots where the nose cone meets the fuse, before epoxy coating, for a respectable looking tight seam. The sides and rear of the canopy seam were blended into the fuse also, cleaning up the appearance. I don't plan to use LG, but they are removable with a friction fit using captured tubing for the steerable nose gear, and nylon clips for the main gear. The picture of the clip scheme below is from a Guillow's FW190 which uses GWS gear mounts and the modified nylon clips. The nylon clips are flexible and allow the LG to be rotated under the clips, and then removed.
May 23, 2019, 01:53 PM
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Deadguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiArf
Finished the model balanced at 70mm from the front ...
...
Thanks for sharing the build AntiArf. Great job!
Jun 03, 2019, 05:00 PM
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Thanks Deadguy

Took some video today. Landed way too far out. The plane's fine, and thought the glide would be better. Better than overshooting, and being the maiden, I didn't know the glide. I'm hoping they don't mow the tall grass soon, as it's perfect for maidens. Maybe I could move the CG a bit rearward from 70mm and lighten the battery a bit. The less than fully charged 3s-1.8mAh (I'll call it a 5.5oz 2200) finished the flight at 11.7V and was barely above air temperature.

Flew better than expected and barely used full throttle. The strange harmonic noise seems to be a camera microphone reaction while being directly behind the model at launch. The fans does not make that noise, and it there are a few full throttle bursts in the video where the fans are smooth. Ailerons are responsive on this model and could use dual rates. Probably could be turned down to +/- 5mm and be plenty responsive.

Having flown one of these before with the stock setup, I would call it a pig when built stock. Many ounces heavier, not easily hand launchable, and not much better performance with 200+ watts, versus this one flying around most of the flight at 100 watts or even less. They should have at least extended the nacelles as done here, since my first stock build required ballast with the same weight/size battery. Even with the large stock 64mm fans, it would at least look a bit more scale. 50mm fans with the nacelle extension looks far more scale. At full throttle and 23.5oz AUW, the little 12mm Feigao motors give quite respectable performance. Not a thought of overworking the battery either, even at continuous full throttle in the neighborhood of 140 watts.

GWS262 EDF50 (2 min 38 sec)
Jun 03, 2019, 09:20 PM
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Flies surprisingly well on those 12mm motors. Light Weight does have advantage
Last edited by Bare; Jun 03, 2019 at 09:31 PM.
Jun 11, 2019, 02:08 PM
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AntiArf

wow that's great! I'm happy with your maiden. The flight looks good and stable. With the weight and construction of 262, the bad gliding is expectable. I decided to use 50mm 11bld FMS 3s fans. I am a little afraid of overheating but I have one in the Alfa Sabre and it fly w 480g for 1/3 throttle. So I hope this 2x setup will not need the full throttle too. I like easy flying so it will be enough for me to keep the plane in the air. The sound of these FMS11s is great and is also very important for me. I will post maybe next week.


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