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Jun 20, 2008, 12:16 AM
Wowplanes.com
awrightbrother's Avatar
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B17 Bomber design log


Hello Design Team,

The objective of this thread is to design a 60" span B17 as close to scale as possible. I will post pictures of the parts as they are designed, and would appreciate any help or comments that you can provide to get the design just right. Once the design is completed, Wowplanes will kit this plane with plastics by Keith Sparks.

Here is a list of our goals:

1. Kit to include all foam parts in white EPS foam, CNC pre-cut.
2. No hot wire cutting required by you.
3. Minimal sanding or shaping.
4. Kit to include all the plastic parts as shown in this thread.
5. It will have a removable wing.
6. Assembly time to be 10 hours or less.
7. Full color illustrated, on-line construction manual provided.
8 Completely designed and manufactured in the USA.
9. Can be ordered from our website http://www.wowplanes.com
10. Target price - $130 to $150

Here are some pictures of the real thing.

Fahim
Wowplanes.com
Last edited by awrightbrother; Jun 20, 2008 at 12:24 AM.
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Jun 20, 2008, 12:35 AM
MN WATTS Master
Vintauri's Avatar
Glad to see it Fahim. I'll be watching with great interest. If I can be of any help I sure will try to chime in.

Thanks for doing this!

Steve
Jun 20, 2008, 01:04 AM
Oh no, not again!
jhspring's Avatar
Fahim, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but are you aware of this thread in electric warbirds?

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847276

The B-17 is a popular plane and there is probably a market, but it looks like you are going head to head with Mike Black as both are the same size.

Regards,
Jeff
Jun 20, 2008, 08:19 AM
RC 4 Life
sparks's Avatar
They sure did a good job on the model.
This bird is in a different construction class. It's a depron skinned model over a frame or at least that's what I got from the thread.
The assembly skill level is higher than what Fahim has planned.
At 4 pounds it looks like we have a very hard target to shoot for, I'm sure most of it is equipment though.
Being a near solid beaded foam model this B-17 should be a little heavier but much tougher.
The need for inner support structure inside a depron bird for gear and motor mounts and the lack of in a solid bird should help bring their weight closer.
The depron bird is made in the UK . . . .one word . . .$hipping.
Jun 20, 2008, 11:17 AM
who needs pistons?
nopistons96's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks
They sure did a good job on the model.
This bird is in a different construction class. It's a depron skinned model over a frame or at least that's what I got from the thread.
The assembly skill level is higher than what Fahim has planned.
At 4 pounds it looks like we have a very hard target to shoot for, I'm sure most of it is equipment though.
Being a near solid beaded foam model this B-17 should be a little heavier but much tougher.
The need for inner support structure inside a depron bird for gear and motor mounts and the lack of in a solid bird should help bring their weight closer.
The depron bird is made in the UK . . . .one word . . .$hipping.
ALL good points Keith. and if Fahim can keep the price in that $150 range, that would make it a few bucks cheaper than the Green Air Designs bird. Both have their strong points but like you said "$hipping"
Jun 20, 2008, 12:09 PM
Registered User
Ron Daniels's Avatar
Sorry for the sideline, but.....

I just like the picture of the B52 together with the B17.

One was in service a little over 60 years ago, and the other one a little under 50. If they were cars, we'd consider them both to be from roughly the same era.

Yet one is a museum piece and the other is an in-service weapon of war.

Interesting contrast between planes that were both in the air way before seat belts, microwave ovens, affordible colour televisions, radial tires, or many, many other things that have "been around forever".


Ron Daniels
Jun 20, 2008, 07:00 PM
Wowplanes.com
awrightbrother's Avatar
Jeff, I was not aware of this B17 kit. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Well that is something to think about before we get too far into it. Keith is correct that shipping is more expensive from UK, but they could very easily find a reseller here and fix that.

I am confident that we can come in below $150 and that will give us a price advantage.

The construction is different, in that their's is made of a frame structure skinned with Depron, which makes it more complex to construct, harder to repair, and less options on finish.

The question then remains, is there room in the market for these two models?

Fahim
Jun 20, 2008, 10:38 PM
diligentia vis celeritas
gunracer's Avatar
she'd be tough to pass on if you sized her up to 70" and still kept her under $150...making sure she's retract ready would be my only other suggestion...good luck in your endeavor...
Jun 20, 2008, 11:19 PM
Oh no, not again!
jhspring's Avatar
Fahim, GAD has a retailer here, Chuck's Hobbies, and both Chuck and Mike have been really helpful (I have their Lanc). I don't think shipping is as big an issue as you might imagine. The GAD B-17 comes with custom-built scale retracts, flaps and lights as builder options and a power kit if you want it. I think you are up against a tough sell.

Can I put in a pitch for a B-24? :-)

Regards, Jeff
Jun 20, 2008, 11:50 PM
Wowplanes.com
awrightbrother's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhspring
Fahim, GAD has a retailer here, Chuck's Hobbies, and both Chuck and Mike have been really helpful (I have their Lanc). I don't think shipping is as big an issue as you might imagine. The GAD B-17 comes with custom-built scale retracts, flaps and lights as builder options and a power kit if you want it. I think you are up against a tough sell.

Can I put in a pitch for a B-24? :-)

Regards, Jeff
Jeff

Sure, but how much does it cost with all these bells and whistles? I see that it is 150 English Pounds which would equal almost $300 US !!!

We are shooting for less than 50% of that. Is it still a tough sell and for whom?

But I am willing to abort in favor of a B24 or B29. What say you folks?

Fahim
Last edited by awrightbrother; Jun 21, 2008 at 12:01 AM.
Jun 21, 2008, 07:04 AM
Registered User
david_r2ese's Avatar
I'm not saying to cancel. But there are no B-24 or B-29 kits available that I know of. There should definately be a market for those, as well as a B-26.

Dave
Jun 21, 2008, 07:23 AM
Registered User
RyanPSU21's Avatar
I say bring it on and design all 3. B17, B24 and B29. Seriously, there are a zillion ARF and kit Aerobat's (Extra, Edge, Katanna, yawn, blah...) so why can't we have atleast a couple of bomber options.
Jun 21, 2008, 10:42 AM
Registered User
SRush99's Avatar
Fahim,

I'll be ordering a B-17 from you when they become available. I think the cost of the other B-17 would be cost prohibitive for everyone on this side of the pond. I also think that getting depron molded around the formers might be a problem for those that don't have a lot of building experience.

By the way, how's the design coming? I would think that Keith would be providing cowls, turrets, and canopies. Can you show what you expect the canopy to look like? I would imagine it would be fairly lage - from forward of the LE to the TE.

By the way, thanks for taking on this project!

-Stuart
Jun 21, 2008, 02:51 PM
Wowplanes.com
awrightbrother's Avatar
The design is pretty much done and I had made the first prototpye fuselage, before having second thoughts. I looked into this some more and found another offering from Nitro Models for a 65" B17 ARF for $199.

Given that, I think we need to abandon this plane and stick to models that are not being offered by others.

How about doing another 2 engine bomber? The kit price and the AUC (all up cost) is lower than a 4 motor engine one.

How about a B26 Maurader?

Fahim
Jun 21, 2008, 03:02 PM
Registered User
david_r2ese's Avatar
Marauder! Marauder! Marauder! Yay!

Dave


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