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Jun 18, 2008, 11:50 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Cool

Enterprise-D - Build Log, Plans, Kits, and now a Mini-Version!


Ok, We have been over this many times, I have a problem.

Here it is

**** UPDATE *****

Version 2 is complete!

Plans are up and I am now offering up Full Kits!

Kits are $40 plus shipping (under $10)

I am also offering other levels of assembled kit. From Unpainted ARF to Fully Painted RTF.

Anyone that is interested in a kit send me a PM.

Video and More pictures to follow!

Thanks for your interest!

Also keep watching i am probably going to be offering kits for my other designs soon!

Details on build...

*******Recommended Hardware********

Motor and Speed Control with 9x5 prop - Towerpro BM2409-12T - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=4709

Alternate motor - Turnigy L2210-1400 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_210w_.html

Going to need some connectors for the motor and esc - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...p?idProduct=68

Servos - Hextronic 9g and 5g servo (1 of each) - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...?idProduct=662

Battery - 1300 Mah 3s 11.1v LiPo - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s..._25C_Lipo_Pack

Radio Hardware - Any 3 channel or higher radio will work

*********Build Materials*********

Carbon Tube for foam Reinforcement - 3mm OD x 2mm ID x 750mm long - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6722

Carbon Rod for nacelle support - 1.5mm or 2mm rod - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6731

Carbon Flat for Saucer Reinforcement - 1mm x 6mm or so. I couldn't find it from Hobby City but your local hobby shop will have it. - I have built the plane without it and it works fine, but it is stronger with it.

Gorilla Glue

Razor Knife / Single Edge Safety Razor Blades

Pushrod Wire - i usually use .037 but you can use any size you like

Control Horns - I usually make my own from old credit cards.

Hinge Tape - I use 3m Fiber tape 1/2" wide and make overlapping hinge strips. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...1&postcount=16

***********Finishing/Painting************

It is pretty easy to just toss a light coat of White or Light Gray paint on and call it a plane but this thing is begging for more than that!

I usually use Krylon H20 Latex Spray paint as my base coat then decide what to do.

You can Airbrush the shadows and use a brush to put in the windows and stuff.

Then add some decals like these - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=271

Or you can use Rasterize's skins that he has been working on!! - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=382

For the skins and decals there are a few ways you can go with to make it work out but i like the Decoupage method. - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=356


Good Luck!

Version 1 Video
RC Foam Enterprise D Maiden (4 min 0 sec)


Version 2 Video
Enterprise-D Version 2 Kit! (4 min 3 sec)
Last edited by SGTalon; May 27, 2016 at 07:37 AM.
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Jun 19, 2008, 12:04 AM
I'm a registered user!!!
*314*john*314*'s Avatar
its that using google scetch up? OT but will it slow down any thing or cause havic on my computer?
Jun 19, 2008, 12:21 AM
Windependent
slopepilot's Avatar
im loving it,, keep going,,you've got my attention>>>ooops now its gone,,, ooh here i am,,,,really now,,im very interested,,i'd like to make a flying saucer,,i'll be watching...
Jun 19, 2008, 04:08 AM
Registered User
v22chap's Avatar
cool design ,, hope you get it going .
Jun 19, 2008, 05:29 AM
My plans are in my blog
Rusty-Gunn's Avatar
Quite interesting, hope it works out well.
Jun 19, 2008, 06:01 AM
Only one more Honey
bidlynd's Avatar
I'm interested as well.

Where would the CG be located?
Jun 19, 2008, 06:15 AM
Crash & Burn
rmgmag's Avatar
That looks great. Can't wait to see someone build it and fly it.
Jun 19, 2008, 06:33 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
What's the problem , it looks SUPER!!!
Jun 19, 2008, 06:40 AM
My planes have left thrust :s
vanepico's Avatar
would having the motor behind the prop aid in cooling as opposed to having it in front?
Jun 19, 2008, 06:43 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Looks promissing!

Having the motor as far forward as possible will help with the proverbial tail-heavy nature of this type of planform. Hopefully this is it!
Jun 19, 2008, 07:38 AM
Go Sabres!
savall21's Avatar
Cool! Subscribing.
Jun 19, 2008, 07:45 AM
Registered User
Very interesting...
Jun 19, 2008, 08:14 AM
dcb
dcb
Registered User
Looks cool, is the problem of a personal nature?

Just guessing here:
1. It wasn't obvious that the extra fins on the front wing will help, might actually make it less stable.

2. You might want a lower cg (put batteries low) since no dihederal.

3. is it an elevon plane?
Jun 19, 2008, 10:01 AM
7up
7up
,ɯǝ ʇoƃ ɐʎ ɟı ,ɯǝ ǝʞoɯs
7up's Avatar
Looks very cool... puts ideas in my head.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:04 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Thanks for everyones interest!

Starting at the top,

I do all my designs in Autodesk Inventor. It is a reasonably priced 3D design program that i bought for my engineering company. Google Sketchup is pretty easy and does not tax your computer too much. I would recommend trying it. I just use my Inventor because I use it every day and am used to it.

Based on my other Space themed designs the CG is usually very far forward to make these things stable.

Tie Fighter - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=871840
Klingon Bird of Prey - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843143
USS Reliant - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=856221

IT is a bit hard to see in the pics but i am going with ailerons on the back of the saucer section and elevator on the back end.

The main reason for the extra verticals on the saucer is for strength but with all of the trailing parts i think their effect on flight characteristics will be minimal. Especially compared to my Klingon!

Weight should come in around 12 oz or so with my 22 oz thrust motor it WILL fly. My Reliant was actually a very stable floater. The Klingon was a high speed beast and the Tie Fighter is suprisingly accurate in flight characteristics to the movie

I am going to try to put it together this weekend and fly it.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:41 AM
Insert comment here:
totalywicked's Avatar
Looks good let me change that looks great.
My question is were are you going to find delirium (<=Spelling??) crystals to power it???
Jun 19, 2008, 10:48 AM
Omphaloskeptic
SaulOhio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
the Tie Fighter is suprisingly accurate in flight characteristics to the movie
Does that include the sound? I bet it would sound VERY realistic with a ducted fan.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:53 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Actually i was thinking the same thing about the Tie.

And since we have not perfected the MHD Fusion Generator, Dilithium Crystals are of little or no use to us.

I hope that my version of the Enterprise D fares better than the original on it's first introduction to planetary atmosphere.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:59 AM
My planes have left thrust :s
vanepico's Avatar
weapon systems?... tuesday haha
Jun 19, 2008, 11:17 AM
Insert comment here:
totalywicked's Avatar
How big is it going to be?
Jun 19, 2008, 12:18 PM
How do I change this text?
Darth_Elevator's Avatar
This thread might be of some help in working out CG and motor setup: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807504. His plan isn't scale, since the back part is attached to the saucer, but at least his is flyable.

Starship #3 (0 min 37 sec)
Jun 19, 2008, 01:24 PM
My plans are in my blog
Rusty-Gunn's Avatar
Good luck, dude. Looking good, hope she works out well for you.
Jun 19, 2008, 01:36 PM
"It's a Quad" :O
thewz's Avatar
OK Darth prepare for the geek alert......

The one you show there is the A variant not the D...... The D has little short fat nacelles and the A has the long thin ones that actually are pretty close to the saucer section.
Last edited by thewz; Jun 19, 2008 at 01:43 PM.
Jun 19, 2008, 02:16 PM
My planes have left thrust :s
vanepico's Avatar
you can get a 1:1000000 airfix kit of the enterprise it is still at least 6in long
Jun 19, 2008, 02:50 PM
its never a bad landing
looks stable and if your going with a large model you could probably set up a dual rudder system
interesting design
Jun 19, 2008, 03:30 PM
How do I change this text?
Darth_Elevator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewz
OK Darth prepare for the geek alert......
Nice. I consider myself alerted.
Jun 19, 2008, 03:56 PM
Procrashtinating Builder
mastrsn's Avatar
O.K., I'm putting aside my Slow Stick Perversion projects for this one! ( Yes, I am a die- hard trekkie! )

When you build, plans please!

While we wait, here is the trailer for the new Star Trek movie due out 12/08


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuksQwGOtVs
Jun 19, 2008, 04:47 PM
Parkesflyer
RJPIoW's Avatar
... some while ago whilst surfing I came across what was claimed to be an original drawing of a Startrek Enterprise. I imported it into my CAD system, and I have been toying with a design that has a 26" dia hull and that could be powered by a 6" dia EDF unit hidden in the main fusalage type section, thinking that if there was enough thrust it would fly.

I was going to use rolled 3mm Depron or EPP for the main tubes and a typical 4/40 rolled Depron wing shape for the round hull.

Your forum has spurred me on to complete the design and build a prototype. Thanks for the push.


Richard
Jun 19, 2008, 10:15 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I always post the plans for my designs... once they are flying!

The three i posted all have their plans. I highly recommend the Reliant. Very stable and fun to fly. I flew it the other day in about 20-30 mph winds!

The Klingon is the coolest flying one so far though.

Printing off my plans in the morning for construction to begin Friday Night.

I have been on a total space theme kick this flying season. I have 3 other designs ready for build. I have just been very busy lately and that USS Simpleprise thread inspired me to do this one.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:21 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I always post the plans for my designs... once they are flying!

The three i posted all have their plans. I highly recommend the Reliant. Very stable and fun to fly. I flew it the other day in about 20-30 mph winds!

The Klingon is the coolest flying one so far though.

Printing off my plans in the morning for construction to begin Friday Night.

I have been on a total space theme kick this flying season. I have 3 other designs ready for build. I have just been very busy lately and that USS Simpleprise thread inspired me to do this one.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:22 PM
Blood Gir
stripy's Avatar
very interesting... hey RJPIoW you surf? lol
Jun 20, 2008, 12:02 AM
Parkesflyer
RJPIoW's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripy
very interesting... hey RJPIoW you surf? lol
Clearly demonstrating the lively wit and ready humour of the kiwi .......
Jun 20, 2008, 01:07 AM
bucket of prop wash
garrcass's Avatar

AHH ha


hey lets buy a bunch of air hogs and take the power systems out and make a bunch of litle thrust vectoring ones out of 3mm and sell them at the conventions because you know that after the new move comes out there will be some big company makein them just like the litle starscream ones at radio shack that came out for the transformers plus it would be a good way to pick up on some green mini skirt wearing convention chicks
Jun 20, 2008, 04:43 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
OK!

Plans are printed. They came out even simpler than i thought! They look awesome too. As soon as i prove that it works i will post for all you Trekkies out there.

I will definitely be putting this guy together this weekend. Hopefully i will have time to finish it and fly this weekend. We shall see.
Jun 29, 2008, 08:35 PM
I'm a Registered User
I can't wait for this one My D attempt(useing an Enterprise glider) failed incredably miserably.
Jun 29, 2008, 09:34 PM
7up
7up
,ɯǝ ʇoƃ ɐʎ ɟı ,ɯǝ ǝʞoɯs
7up's Avatar

Trekkie? Trekkie!


I am #1 Trekkie... hurry, hurry...
Jun 29, 2008, 09:40 PM
In Rc for a LONG TIME FFAA#1
laserman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
OK!

Plans are printed. They came out even simpler than i thought! They look awesome too. As soon as i prove that it works i will post for all you Trekkies out there.

I will definitely be putting this guy together this weekend. Hopefully i will have time to finish it and fly this weekend. We shall see.
please post plans soon i would love to have one for when / if i start my new job, as i had a inter view and the two techies that were part of the tribual that interviewed me their eyes popped wide when i said i was working on a uss reliant and the other guy asked about the enterprise and i said the plans were in the works!!! so please please post soon!!
Jun 29, 2008, 09:47 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Laser, are you building my Reliant?

I have the plans posted and it flies awesome. I just had it up today and it was really cool.

As an update to the "D", I cut it all out tonight and i am getting ready to glue parts. I may put a few parts together tonight.

I got it all out of 1 sheet of Bluecore too. Looks sweet!
Jun 30, 2008, 07:28 AM
Registered User
Pictures please.
Jun 30, 2008, 08:26 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I didn't get a chance to glue anything last night. As soon as i put a few pieces together i will post pics for sure!

This thing is going to be awesome. BIG too!! The saucer is the same diameter as the Reliant so it is going to be about twice the size of the Reliant.
Jul 01, 2008, 09:39 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Got everything Cut out and started putting gorilla glue to foam. It is looking great. I can't wait to get this flying.

I seem to be running out of building supplies though. No more dowels or carbon tube for reinforcement. Down to my last length of wire for pushrods. Only a little bit of gorilla glue left. I had to buy a new bundle of foam too. Turns out that i can't get Protection Board at Home Depot anymore so i had to get pink fanfold.

So the Enterprise will be my last Blue plane for a while.

Check out my latest design...

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...0#post10066291
Jul 11, 2008, 07:46 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.

Build nearly complete!!!


SO i have it all together, decided that i need to reinforce the front a bit.

Did some glide tests and CG is a bit behind the midpoint of the saucer section. And this thing was a great floater!!!!

THis will definitely be a better flyer than the Reliant.

Anyhow here are the pics that i took when i did the glide tests.

Should be flying tomorrow!!!

Next up by special request is the Fury!
Jul 12, 2008, 10:09 AM
I'm a Registered User
Looks great Where is the elevator going to be?
Jul 19, 2008, 09:23 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.

Success Again!!!!


OK So i finally finished the Enterprise.

I noticed when i was building it that it is a bit flimsy. So i added some spruce strips to the main fuse to help stiffen it up.

I took it out during the week and did the maiden flight.

Welllllllll..... the CG was way far back. I had my Dual Rates on Ailerons off since i thought it would be better... man was i wrong!

Basically it went into a nice frisbee trajectory and impacted on the ground.

The Farmer cut all my hay down this week so the results were, uh, bad.

Basically broke the thing in half. Remember the Next Generation Movie when they crashed the Enterprise? Well, it was a lot like that!

SO a few days in Space Dock undergoing repairs and i was ready to fly again.

VERY calm weather this afternoon but it was drizzling. So I took her up anyhow. Man did it fly great!!!! My daughter was running the video and she decided to zoom in with our crappy camera and the first video is less than spectacular.

After and beautiful landing less than 5 feet from me I adjusted the battery position to move it a bit farther forward and it flew AWESOME!!

Anyhow i have been trying to upload the video to YouTube all night and it keeps losing connection or something. Hopefully i can get it up soon so you guys can see it. I have all 3 flights in it.

I will also post it on the RCgroups videos.

Some details.

The throws on controls need to be pretty big. About 1" up and down minumum!

It could use a rudder. But that is just adding more complexity.

The drawings have been updated to show further reinforcement to the whole structure. Basically i am putting a 3/8" square spruce spine in the vertical Fuse then gluing the cross dowel for the rear wings to it at the back to make everything stiffer.

When i was doing my rolls it looked more like a roller coaster train than a spaceship

Also this is VERY important... the battery needs to be totally centered left to right. CG is at 13" back from the nose but if you put the battery off to the side you end up with a flight like my first one.

Anyhow, i highly recommend building this one guys. It looks awesome! Flies great and it is sooooooo cool!!!

This one even has PAINT!!!

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...4#post10181221

Video there. I am still trying to get it uploaded to Youtube. I am having internet problems!!!
Last edited by SGTalon; Jul 20, 2008 at 02:52 PM.
Jul 19, 2008, 10:20 PM
How do I change this text?
Darth_Elevator's Avatar
Excellent news. Great flight report. Glad to see all your hard work and perserverance has paid off in the form of a nice flyer. Not to mention a great conversation piece.
Jul 19, 2008, 10:20 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
Great! now you need to put the Enterprise markings on it! Ok, fine, i'll shut up.

Today was a great day to fly wasn't it? Unfortunately I was helping one son lay laminate floor in his living room, and a daughter in law unstrand her car by replacing a dead trans shift cable during the best part of day (and the rain). Did get a flight each in w/ 42"bb, PV2 and Mike (only second on her). Should have been our next funfly today! I could have brought the pblll that you need to avoid the pink plague. (it's actually not too bad as long as you don't focus on the wrinkles in skin - tough to get the large "warp" out of it tho)
Jul 19, 2008, 11:02 PM
Registered User
Talon's video...
Jul 20, 2008, 02:20 AM
skumgummi dave
SGTalon

Enterprise D - Parts 36x42.pdf Doesn't open properly for me. Any others have the same problem?

Dave-
Jul 20, 2008, 02:53 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I didn't double check all of the PDF's.

I will go back and check them out and fix any that have problems.

Will make another post when they are updated.
Jul 20, 2008, 03:24 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Finally got the Youtube uploaded

RC Foam Enterprise D Maiden (4 min 0 sec)
Jul 20, 2008, 03:52 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by foamdave
SGTalon

Enterprise D - Parts 36x42.pdf Doesn't open properly for me. Any others have the same problem?

Dave-
Same here. I'm going to plot them at work tommorrow. How about a *.dxf Talon?

KW
Jul 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
OK PDF's updated and correct now.

Here are the DXF files too.

Enjoy!

I think i am going to go out and get a few more flights in
Last edited by SGTalon; Aug 07, 2011 at 08:28 PM.
Jul 21, 2008, 09:40 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
OK PDF's updated and correct now.

Here are the DXF files too.

Enjoy!

I think i am going to go out and get a few more flights in
Printing now. Will have both at OSH (I volunteered Mon and Tue). Shame you won't be there...

KW
Jul 21, 2008, 11:10 AM
Registered User
Maybe I missed it in the various threads, but what power system/prop are you using?

Same question for radio gear.

Great effort, thanks for sharing it!

John Ihlein
Albuquerque, NM
Jul 21, 2008, 07:16 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I am just using a cheapo motor. I have found that when it comes to motors that thrust is king. (unless it is a high speed jet)

I have a bunch of motors that are all around 1000kv and about 20-23oz of thrust with 11.1v batteries.

I flew it a couple times tonight. It still flies awesome!!!!

IT was pretty windy since there is a thunderstorm rolling in and it handled it no problem. I have found that with as wobbly as my backboneless version that it will not fly inverted. I think it will with the reinforcing backbone i have designed into it now.

I talked to Kwinters on the phone today about it. He is pretty excited about getting it built

I think that this is actually as easy to fly as any of the trainers i have built. A bit harder to tell direction when flying in overcast though. Maybe i should not have painted it gray.
Jul 21, 2008, 11:42 PM
Registered User
Progress tonight. I found two full sheets of white depron and lots of partials...so white she will be.

I also found four sheets of grey depron...
Jul 21, 2008, 11:49 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
You have the spruce you need Kevin?

I am interested to see if the spine reinforces it or if it is still like a liberal (linguini spined) hahahaha just kidding
Jul 22, 2008, 05:56 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
You have the spruce you need Kevin?

I am interested to see if the spine reinforces it or if it is still like a liberal (linguini spined) hahahaha just kidding
I think I have enough CF tube to create the spine. I intentionally 'saved' the main fuselage for last. Will call LHS today and ask about spruce.

KW
Aug 05, 2008, 05:00 PM
Registered User
Success! Our home took a lightning strike and blew out my DSL modem and wireless router. I am *barely* in range to borrow my neighbor's bandwidth to upload these OSH pictures.

Anyway, NCC-1701 flew at OSH and drew a crowd. Of course she was pitch sensitive and my first flights reminded me of Flipper the dolphin: up-down-up-down-up-down. Dialed in D/R for elevator (something like 25%) and I was able to cruise her around more regally. A 2212-06/6x4 is waaay more motor than this girl needs. Most of my flying was at 1/3 throttle. She tended to hang on the prop if flown too slow. Kinda cool to watch, but it made my knees weak. I kept telling everyone, 'I meant to do that' - heh!

Oshkosh was a blast! Teaching kids to fly rc was awesome - I felt like I was finally 'giving back' to this cool hobby.

KW
Aug 06, 2008, 07:36 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Kevin!!!

I am unbelievably jealous about the whole Oshkosh thing!

I would say that the minor stability issues you are having with the Enterprise are 2 things. the first is your battery and gear location. I noticed that when i did my first flight it was very pitch sensetive with the battery and stuff on top so i move them to the bottom and everything smoothed right out.

The second thing would be that you put the Nacelles on backward!!!!
I was looking at the pics and i noticed that something didn't look quite right

Not a big deal but i think the extra area behind the elevator may make it less stable.

Looks sweet though!!


As an update to my Enterprise, i can absolutely confirm that the Enterprise-D floats....

I took it up north this weekend to our annual Schmalzel Family Campout at Mack Lake in Michigan. The only open area to fly is over the lake, so i was flying it around pretty nicely drawing many ooo's and aaah's.

The next morning i was flying it around and thought the battery was getting a bit low so i brought it in. Then my Dad walked up and asked to fly it, so i put it up again and warned him that it would be a short flight.

He flew it around for a while thought it was cool, then i took it back to bring it in and he asked me how it stalls. I had no clue really. So i took it back up a bit and did a few power off then power on stalls, it basically just floats down totally flat in either condition. Then i said, that's all and started to bring it in, well it was heading straight away from me, across the lake and would not turn right!!! Oh crap, so i turned it left, and found that the battery cut off had taken over. It was running the motor at about 1/8 speed and i was at least 200 yards into the lake.

Well i got it just a bit past halfway before it gently plopped down on the lake. Run to the canoe (good thing i brought it!!!) Well it just floated there with the nose of the saucer in the water and the lower fuse, My speed control was in the water, but i also have it all the way forward instead of in the back. So i would recommend if you plan on flying over water to put your gear towards the back of the saucer instead of the front!!!

Pretty sure the speed control will dry out ok. Perhaps a removable pontoon for the nose too

Overall i am totally satisfied with the design of this ship. I definitely recommend it to ANYONE who is looking for a nice flying plane.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

My buddy and i were talking about it today and started speculating about how big you could make one of these....

This plane is a SERIOUS floater. Very easy to contol, can fly slow or fast, it is really an extremely well behaved airplane.

So would it be possible to build one of these as a full sized aircraft? The CG comes out to be very nearly the center of the saucer. Say it was built with a 30' saucer span. Put a nice bubble canopy in the center of the saucer, motor just in front, in the wing just like this one, a retractable nosegear similar to a Long-EZ or Velocity canard plane....

I am seriously thinking that this could work. If it could be built strong enough, and light enough, i think this could be a real flying plane. Imagine the coolness of having a real flying Enterprise!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to play around with this in my 3D design program and see what the scales look like.
Aug 06, 2008, 10:05 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Well i did some playing...

Turns out that if i build my Enterprise-F (Full Scale) out of Dow Protection Board it would weigh about 260 pounds....ovbiously i couldn't make it out of just foam but...

200 Sq. Feet of Surface Area, 14 foot span, 23 feet long.

Add 200 lbs for a motor, 400 lbs for passengers, 100 pounds for fuel... and we are at about 1000 pounds or so. Figure 5 pounds per square foot.

Nice wingloading!

Now i am not saying that this would just work but the possibilities are very interesting.
Aug 06, 2008, 10:20 PM
I'm a Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
Well i did some playing...

Turns out that if i build my Enterprise-F (Full Scale) out of Dow Protection Board it would weigh about 260 pounds....ovbiously i couldn't make it out of just foam but...

200 Sq. Feet of Surface Area, 14 foot span, 23 feet long.

Add 200 lbs for a motor, 400 lbs for passengers, 100 pounds for fuel... and we are at about 1000 pounds or so. Figure 5 pounds per square foot.

Nice wingloading!

Now i am not saying that this would just work but the possibilities are very interesting.
Interesting concept. It woudl definatly be neat If you kept it flat and just scaled it up, how would you get it strong enough to support all the weight? Think it would still fly if it were full fuse?
Aug 07, 2008, 04:25 AM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
Full scale would be cool.
However, based on your drawing, The prop blast would be a killer!

Tony
Aug 20, 2008, 11:26 PM
RIP Sheba :(
Robster's Avatar
Hi SGTalon,

Great stuff! I've started a thread here in the Micro Indoor Forum called 'Star Trek Micros': https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=910487

I wasn't aware of your work until researching and building a little 17g Enterprise for AeroAce gear. I'm very impressed with your models! There is mention of your blog in my thread and I hope you don't mind if I scale down your 1701-D plans for my next micro build since I've already started on it .

Thanks,
Rob

Here is my latest Wrath of Khan Enterprise:
Last edited by Robster; Aug 20, 2008 at 11:32 PM.
Aug 21, 2008, 09:13 AM
My planes have left thrust :s
vanepico's Avatar
thats pretty sweet!
Aug 21, 2008, 10:01 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
If you print the 11x17 tiled prints as 8x11 it will be 1/2 Scale and have about a 10" Dia saucer.

Can't wait to see your version!

I like the detail on your Enterprise-A
Sep 10, 2008, 05:16 AM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
Here's mine. She has a way to go but she's on her way.

Tony

Sep 10, 2008, 02:38 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
VERY NICE CAPT!!!

SInce i have not built it with the new reinforcing spine, how stiff is it now?

Mine, despite many flights, hard landings, and immersion in water (hehe) is still holding up quite well with next to no reinforcement.

I really like the little bit of detail with the red nacelle tips

I can't wait to see it flying
Sep 10, 2008, 10:35 PM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
Pretty stiff. Although I still am not happy with the nacelles. The way they flex you would think they will snap off the first time they hit a bit hard. Given yours has not; maybe they need to be that way.

I thought the Red was a nice touch and if I get the chance, I would like to put some blue glow wire on them as well.



As with the SD, If it survives the maiden, I'll have some video of it flying.





Tony
Sep 10, 2008, 11:14 PM
RIP Sheba :(
Robster's Avatar
Nice job Cpt!



Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
If you print the 11x17 tiled prints as 8x11 it will be 1/2 Scale and have about a 10" Dia saucer.

Can't wait to see your version!

I like the detail on your Enterprise-A
Thanks SGTalon,

Great plans! They scale down very nicely. I shrunk down the parts pdf onto 8.5 x 11 paper, then cut the individual parts out and blew them up by 165% which gives about a 9" saucer diam. - should be about the right size for AA gear, don't want to go any bigger/heavier than this.

It's going to be a fun little build. The templates are almost done, but I haven't had time to go any further.

Man, I can't wait to build it. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Rob
Sep 18, 2008, 03:27 PM
Procrashtinating Builder
mastrsn's Avatar
What motor/ prop did you use on the "D" model?
Sep 18, 2008, 10:21 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
I used a 3D motor setup. 1000kv Towerpro motor that puts out about 23oz of thrust with a 9x5 prop. This plane flies really good at slow speeds and higher speeds. But i would not want to try to take it above 45-50mph. With all the parts hanging out there in space, there is too much opportunity to get out of control.

I would say that it would fly with just about anything though.
Nov 01, 2008, 08:52 PM
I'm a Registered User
I've been threatening at make an SGTalon plane for months, and I've finally got both the time, and parts required I'm making a mini Enterprise for indoor use, using the UH 10g brushless(work in progress pic below). With an 11" saucer, it's almost exactly half scale to the original. I've got a question about the CG. Since I suck at math, can someone simply show me where the CG is supposed to be? Thanks
Nov 02, 2008, 10:26 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Hey Bugman! Looks great!

CG ended up very close to the middle of the saucer. A bit forward of it to be exact. The good thing about it is there is a very large flyable CG range on it. If the CG is too far back is just mushes around in a very nose up position. It almost acts like a Canard plane.

Good luck on the maiden. Hopefully you can get us a video!
Nov 02, 2008, 03:28 PM
I'm a Registered User
Good to know. Thanks Here's my finished Enterprise. It's not super detailed, but I plan on making another one after testing it out. To save some weight, I decided to use only one aileron servo. The only thing I'm waiting on is an ESC, and that should be here shortly, and I hope to maiden it Wednsday at our indoor session.
Specs:
UH 10g motor, rewound by me to 2500 KV
Turnigy 6A, 6g ESC
GWS 5030 prop
2 Bidproduct 4.5g servos
Berg 4L reciever
CS 2S 200mah battery
1.5mm carbon spars down the neck and along the saucer
AUW is 3oz with this little battery
Nov 02, 2008, 05:51 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Looks great!

I think with your small scale that the flex we are seeing on the full size will be very small. it is just so much foam out there flapping in the breeze. I would say that the single servo ailerons will work great. I only did 2 because i was unsure if i needed to dial in any flaps. It turned out that i didn't.

The full size one is such a floater i don;t know that it needed anything.

I keep thinking that i should build another one and really get detailed with it but i have a hard time rebuilding my planes. So much more desire to build the NEXT design rather than rebuild.

Can't wait for more pics and the videos!
Nov 13, 2008, 07:15 PM
I'm a Registered User
Like the SD, it flew...sorta. again, sorry about no video, I'm still trying to find a cameraman. It was a handfull in the air. It launched super easy, and flew in straight lines great Turning was something else entirley. It definatly need more reinforcment between the saucer and engineering hull. I'd hit the ailerons, the saucer would roll, the neck would twist, and the nacells woould act as rudders trying to go the opposite direction.

The net result was that it wouldn't turn until teh neck bent so far that it sprang back the other way, then the ship would snap over to the direction of the ailerons. Made for some interesting flying. You could actually see the tail wagging as it flew

I also had a big issue with torque rolling. The 5" prop and 11" saucer was to much and it kept wanting to roll left. I stepped down to a 4540 prop and put the battery further to the right, that cured that problem right up

Since I've still got an ounce to play with before I'm back down to 1:1 thrust/weight, I'm going to try a bigger saucer and more carbon in the neck for next week. This should help with the torque rolling, and make it a bit more "solid" NCC-1701-D Mk II should be done shortly
Nov 14, 2008, 08:57 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Hey Jeff,

I have the same type of problem with mine with the neck strength. THat is why i redesigned it with the square hardwood stock spine.

Also you really have to make sure the engine nacelles are perfectly straight.

One of the nice things about the bigger one is that it makes everything slower. My full size one has very gentle flying characteristics. I even let my non-pilot friends give it a try.

The torque roll thing is a known issue too. I dialed in some extra trim to keep it flying straight. I think with my 9" prop and 20" saucer i still have about 5-10 degrees of right aileron as level flight.

Sounds like you need a melon cam. Get one of those cheapo digital cameras and hot glue it to a baseball cap.

Or do what i do. Get your kids to do it. They don't have the option of refusing
Nov 14, 2008, 02:43 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
Meloncam idea: velcro wire holders looped through holes in hat. And a good use for pink foam - hot glued back board for cam mount.

Hey Dennis: any free weekends coming up?
Nov 22, 2008, 09:45 AM
I'm a Registered User
Still working on my Meloncam. The Enterprise D V2.0(well technically 1.5) flys Better than the first anyway. I enlarged the saucer 20%, and doubled up the neck piece. I also put a 1mmx2mm carbon strip where you've got your wood. AUW is up to 3.5 oz and it took a quarter on the nose to get it to balance

It left my hand and flew straight off. I still have no aileron control at low speed, so I had to keep the speed up. It was very pitch sensitive, so I had to limit the elevator deflection. Also, the pitch was very wierd. If, for example, you pulled back and pitched up 20*, when you let go of the elevator, it would stay pitched at 20*. It wouldn't settle back to neutral like my other planes do. This made for a challenging flight. Not only did I have to keep it rolled level, I also had to concentrate on keeping the pitch level. Some right thrust and setting the battery off to the right eliminated the torque rolling.

All in all, it was a much better flier than the first. The doubled up neck got rid of all the tail wagging tentancies. I really like the 20% larger saucer. It adds much more area without adding to much weight. It would have been real floaty with more low speed control. Except for the low speed control and stange pitching it flew great. I've got some ideas to fix those. It's getting closer
Nov 22, 2008, 01:36 PM
Don't leave it Stock
mrfliboy's Avatar

Heres mine


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...6#post10990431

Video of maiden. Great set of Plans. Thanks SGTalon
Nov 22, 2008, 07:55 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Awesome builds guys!!

I am not sure what the deal is with yours Jeff. Mine has so much wing area for the weight that i don;t have any of those bad habits.

I did see a version of the Enterprise that had a widened saucer. It was much more of an elongated oval so it had more of a "wing" Maybe that is the solution for your stability problem.

I love watching videos of people building my planes!
Jan 15, 2009, 04:00 PM
Registered User
I'm going to give the Enterprise with the oval design a try and take it to E-Fest if I can get it done. I'm thinking about lighting it up for night flying if it turns out to be a stable flyer. Any suggestions?

Happy Camper
Jan 16, 2009, 06:21 AM
Don't leave it Stock
mrfliboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy camper
I'm going to give the Enterprise with the oval design a try and take it to E-Fest if I can get it done. I'm thinking about lighting it up for night flying if it turns out to be a stable flyer. Any suggestions?

Happy Camper

Mine will be there with lights and all. Build it light!!
Jan 16, 2009, 09:54 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Honestly the only hard part about the build is keeping the nacelles straight!

THey stick out a long way so be careful that they are perfectly parallel to the fuse or they will make the plane fly wierd.

Mine flies like a trainer and if you keep it light it floats really well. Stalls are very gentle. It just mushes through the air.

You need to have very large control throws on the ailerons too. I move mine over 1" up and down.

Make sure you post pictures!!!
Jan 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
SGTalon,

Finally got around to finishing mine and here's the flight video
( and the following crash )
I ended up having to give it full left just to keep it somewhat straight.
While trying to bring it in to readjust it, It stalled and crashed.
Pylons popped right off!

nothing that can be fixed.

Tony

Enterprise (1 min 14 sec) (1 min 14 sec) (0 min 0 sec)
Jan 17, 2009, 01:09 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Thinking back, it seems to me i had a similar problem on my first flight. i had the battery on one side of the fuse and it made it turn to that side.

Check your balance from right to left too to make sure it is not wanting to roll! And like i mentioned, lots of control input on the ailerons is needed.

Loks like a clean build though! I never saw nacelles pop off like that? Were they rubber banded on or something?!
Jan 17, 2009, 09:56 AM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
No, they were 90 degree angles and hot glued on. However, they didn't break at the glue joints. They broke about 1/2 to 1 inch inboard. Still, nothing that can't be repaired and I'll simply add a bit more support in that area in the form of a carbon rod across the bottom.

Strange thing is, I took your post into consideration when I placed the battery. It was actually directly on the centerline just aft of the prop slot.
( That why you see me make a small adjustment just before the flight. The battery wire was hitting the prop. )

On this bird, I'm wondering if the battery will have to end up on the left side of the centerline to stop it from wanting to turn hard right.

Tony
Jan 17, 2009, 07:49 PM
I'm a Registered User
I had to offset my battery to counter prop torque on my 50% version(my prop length to saucer width ratio wasn't great). Worked like a charm That's probably not your problem though, as prop torque requires some right instead of left. Could your thrust angle have been off slightly?
Jan 19, 2009, 09:25 PM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
Not sure. Using the TLAR method, It seemed to be correct. I have noticed it is still a bit tail heavy and that may have had something to do with it as well. I"m hanging a 2200 battery off the front but even with a second one of the same size, it still feels tail heavy. I haven't had the chance to try it yet with the battery mounted to the left and the extra nose weight. We'll see what it does in that configuration. The cg as it is, seems to be just about 3/4 of the disks lenght from front to rear.


Tony
Jan 19, 2009, 09:40 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
The CG on mine is right about the center of the disk. A 2200 battery is huge!

You may need to put the battery in front of the motor!!!

probably all the extra reinforcement in the back has added weight. I am also not impressed with the weight of hot glue. It seems a lot heavier than the foaming glues like Gorilla or Sumo.

On my Reliant. I ended up adding a few pieces of the stick on lead right on the leading edge of it to balance properly. Maybe that is a better solution than using that big battery.
Jan 19, 2009, 09:47 PM
If it flys,I can crash it
cptdragn's Avatar
I may end up going that way as well. The lead would end up being a better idea in any case. At least with lead you don't worry about messing up a good battery from crash damage.

As for CG, Thats what I thought you had said to place it. I was trying on mine to at least get it at the edge of the step on the KF wing.


Tony
Feb 18, 2009, 12:10 AM
Registered User

Starship at E-FEST


I had a great time flying the Enterprise at E-Fest. It got all kinds of attenshion from the old to the very young. The Enterprise seems to envoke something special in all who love it and to see it fly well that is a treat.

HC
Feb 18, 2009, 08:33 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
That is awesome Happy!

I love that everyone is showing it off. Almost makes me want to build another one that is nicer. I kinda slapped mine together.
Feb 18, 2009, 10:26 AM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
Dennis: Pretty cool that your concept wound up at Efest! We were missing you at the soccer place yesterday, your space ships would have capped the day. Ah, well those of us with jobs do have to work them! I trust your's is going well. Spring is coming, and Saturdays/Sundays will Await!
Feb 18, 2009, 10:45 AM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Unfortunately i can't afford to buy an AMA membership to be able to fly at the dome.

I would love to get out to an indoor place though. I still need to finish a couple of my latelst builds but with the cold weather i just have not been motivated to bother with it.
Feb 18, 2009, 12:29 PM
Registered User

a second ship


Ya I would like to build another and maybe make it lighter and nicer. My brother always tells me to take a little more time finishing it out but foam doesn't last that long especially when your indoors and have midair collisions like I had at E-Fest. It didn't want to fly slow which made it a little challanging to fly indoors without a rudder but, outside no problem. Thanks for the great design! I always like to build something different I don't know what I'll do to top this one

HC

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
That is awesome Happy!

I love that everyone is showing it off. Almost makes me want to build another one that is nicer. I kinda slapped mine together.
Feb 18, 2009, 01:03 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
I popped for the parkflyer membership for $30, Not sure it was high value, but it has been fun to try flying indoors. And, the first two times I went, wasn't a member, and just hung around and watched (no charge to watch!), that was almost as much fun. They had more planes in the air than we did at our aug get together! (must have been 30 or so - lots of mid airs) If you get some time off, and want to go, let me know, I prob won't go every week, only have two punches left on the ticket, but will meet ya there if ya want.
May 04, 2009, 09:44 AM
Procrashtinating Builder
mastrsn's Avatar
...
Last edited by mastrsn; May 20, 2009 at 09:19 AM.
May 04, 2009, 11:37 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
That is purty!

Are both designs with the V-Tail setup? It kinda looked like the white depron one was not. Hard to tell. I am sure you have discovered that the CG of these guys is way forward. If you start with your balance like a Nutball you are usually pretty close to where it needs to be.

Get that thing flying!


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