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Old May 22, 2008, 08:55 AM
440GTX is offline
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If you are just starting a $ 200.00 receiver ready is not too bad.
How about a HP f 16 $ 140.00
add 2 servos it a $ 165.00 Receiver Ready EDF

I got into electrics last year and this was the cost

GP Extra 300S $ 100.00
E-Flite Park 480 $ 75.00
E-Flite 40A ESC $ 50.00
3 servos $ 35.00
Prop $ 3.00

$ 263.00 Receiver Ready
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Old May 22, 2008, 09:10 AM
Bryan Davison is offline
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Im with you, no more foam rip-offs.

Everything Ive built in the last few months has been balsa. Its cheaper and it flys better too.
Old May 22, 2008, 09:11 AM
termite is offline
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I just can't afford them so I don't buy them PERIOD

Even if i could i wouldn't order sometning that comes with all the crap in it;
That stuff is for me to decide, not someone else!!!

Nitroplanes has an F-22 airframe only that I may push the button on and it's still $90 Thant's a lot of cash for a peice of foam!!! BUT at least I get to decide what and how I'm gonna set it up.

Randy
Old May 22, 2008, 09:52 AM
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no matter how you slice it - a decent radio controlled plane - or jet, is gonna be around $200 - $300 with everything in it, even if its not foamy.
Old May 22, 2008, 10:01 AM
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I don't think we should blame Chinese for this issue, they make it and sell stuff cheap.
Another issue is dealers 120% mark ups and successful advertising that misrepresent the product. You see actual model flying not knowing what's inside. Average wholesale cost for a piece of these is less than $100 but there is a minimum quantity requirement. Now NPS versoins are around $40-$50.It would be good idea to group buy most of the stuff and there you go. Most of them will sell ARF kit w/o electronics, even parts and you will be surprised what would you pay per piece.
It's up to us to refuse to buy RTF junk but we are minority on this anyways. Just look at Feebay, it's flooded with Starmax RTF F/A-18 and others with no reserve and still sells for $180+ plus shipping. I am wondering who buys it? Most likely those pop up here every once in a while asking for help with junk stuff.
Last edited by darmar; May 22, 2008 at 10:18 AM.
Old May 22, 2008, 10:15 AM
Doubletap is offline
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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
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Let's get something straight here. There is nothing wrong with Chinese made products. Just about everything is made in China nowadays. The computer you are using right now is 90% made in China. Just about every consumer electronic device you have in your home is made in China. 95% of Walmart's inventory is from China. Within the next few years, we will start to see Chinese made automobiles in the US. Chinese made imports are here to stay so we might as well get used to it.

China makes good quality products for good prices, but that's been changing lately as they attempt to fetch American prices for Chinese made goods. Manufacturing anything in China costs a tiny fraction of what it would cost to make in the USA and should be priced accordingly; this is due to a host of factors which I won't get into here.

In new markets such as this relatively recent foamie EDF boom, manufacturers are few and have little to no competition, so they will try to get as much margin for their products limited only by what the market will bare (that means what us consumers are willing to pay). Later in the cycle as more players enter the game, prices come down as a natural result of competition. We see this already in some of the more mature hobby sub-markets such as RTF helis, ARF built-up wood planes, brushless motors, ESC's, lipos, radio gear, etc. All this stuff are at super low price levels and continue to drop.

Foam jets are at the stage where they have increased their prices to the point that the consumer feels they are no longer getting the type of value normally associated with Chinese made goods, and this thread is the result.

Hopefully, they will take this to heart along with their declining sales number at these prices and provide us consumers with more fairly priced models in-line with the other hobby products they produce.

Czech made hobby products have gone through a similar cycle and are now some of the most outrageously priced items in the industry, but that's a topic for another discussion.

You ARE the market so vote with your wallet, or as Nancy Reagan used to say: "Just say NO!"

Doubletap
Old May 22, 2008, 10:28 AM
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Competition IS heating up!


I just noticed that the new ArtTech F-18 is going for a street price of $100 plus shipping. Now, that is approximately HALF the price of other currently available and similarly equipped/sized ARF EDF foamies on the market! All it takes is 1 enterprising manufacturer to lower the bar and get the price wars going; this is always good for the consumer. I think relief is insight for the foam EDF enthusiast!

Doubletap
Old May 22, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Like Atis and others I also am going back to making my own stuff. Got me made a hotwire cutter for few $$ and vacum forming table for plastics for cheap also, need printer or go to Kinkos for 3 views printing. I know it takes time to build a model but that way you get rewarded with your own creation.
On the other side GWS rules when it comes to NPS pricing, but lacking choice of models.
Old May 22, 2008, 11:00 AM
shhhhh! is offline
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Yes..ok..maybe..lol.....
Manufactures of Foam Jets: Please give us at least two options:
1) Airframe only
2)Arf- Almost ready to fly
Most of the guys/gals flying EDFs are experienced modelers and would like to place their own power system in the jet.I believe that is what most of the consumers would desire.
It is such a waste of money to purchase a kit for the airframe and to also have to pay for a power system that will end up in the junk pile.
The Arf choice is just that ...a choice that some EDf pilots may choose to pursue.
Old May 22, 2008, 11:19 AM
CarreraGTSCS is offline
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Lori, hey, you're home early
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmar
...I don't think we should blame Chinese for this issue, they make it and sell stuff cheap...
I don't blame the Chinese people but I do blame the Chinese government. American and European products would be just as inexpensive if they didn't have to adhere to basic minimum standards for working conditions, pay rates, worker health and safety and environmental protection laws. The Chinese government does what it wants where it wants and when it wants. An example: Warren Buffet (famous rich guy investor) is investing a huge amount of money (I can't remember how much) in an Israeli company that makes industrial cutting bits. The factory won't be in Israel, Europe or North America. It'll be in China. Why? Buffet says that it'll take 6 months to break ground and IIRC about a year to be up and running. He says the same process would have taken 5 years of political and legal manouvering in the US and just as long in Europe. I'm going from memory here so the times may be off and I'm paraphrasing Buffet too from memory. So, no thought to the environment and no concern for their citizens. So yes, I do balme the Chinese (government). They can do far better for their people and still beat us.

Does this make me sound like a socialist? I'm not. These days I identify myself more as a conservative in the vein of WFB and not a neo-conservative like the morons on TV and radio.

As for the cost overall for an EDF, that you'll spend a good bit is a given but it will be with the high quality electronics of your choice. It won't be in the plane to preserve or inflate the makers profits.

Sureflight is here in the US aren't they? California I think. Are they in production yet? If they could get their act together and produce a quality kit molded here they'd have a chance to gain a foothold in a traditionally foreign dominated market. It looks liek they're selling the same old stuff though. ARF's were the future 5 years ago, so the future is here. I'm a big fan of GWS's philosophy of kit production (I know that the US and European dealrs feel abused but I'm speaking only of the kits and not the distribution). More or less complete kits at a nearly irresistable price. Not all jems of course but they do get it right more often than not.

Mike
Old May 22, 2008, 11:56 AM
gunracer is offline
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diligentia vis celeritas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidrc
no matter how you slice it - a decent radio controlled plane - or jet, is gonna be around $200 - $300 with everything in it, even if its not foamy.
i agree...for me (and i think a lot of others), it's the extra $100 or more for unwanted eletronics in an rtf kit that keeps me from buying an otherwise nice looking model...

i also think that edf and other non-trainer type models offered in rtf kits gets newbies in way over their heads...don't know if that's the intent but 'ready to fly' almost reads and sounds like 'easy to fly'...
Old May 22, 2008, 12:23 PM
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Best approach, don't hit the buy botton for a few weeks until somebody does a review of the product. If a company believes in what they are selling they will give a source a kit to review. This used to be common in the US with RC magazines. Buy, buy, buy, then regret as soon as you open the box and see what falls out. I'm guilty of this, mostly with fans and motors since I scratch build a lot. If you ask most people who bought one of these 200+ foamie ARF's if they felt they got a good deal how many would say they felt like it was worth the bucks?? Just wait a few weeks, then ask them before you buy.

Cheers--Stacker
Old May 22, 2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarreraGTSCS
Here's my rant: I can't be the only one here that's getting tired of the trend towards higher and higher priced foamies.

Yep. fed up is a good choice of words. My guess is that China figured out that people are willing to pay for convenience. Foam ARF is a heck of alot more convenient that a scratch build, most don't have the time or skills required to do those. The biggest problem is that people are paying what is being charged. If that were =to cease, prices would drop like a stone to more realistic levels.
Old May 22, 2008, 12:58 PM
CarreraGTSCS is offline
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Lori, hey, you're home early
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You got it Joe. If only we could do the same with gas prices!

Stacker-- You got it right too. I can't remember buying any RC related JUNK after joining RCG. I always, always do a search here before buying anything. If there's no info I wait. Sometimes I come out ahead and sometimes behind. (I do wish that I'd taken a chance on the Loong Max 2250's before they sold out though! I waited because they were of unknown quality.)

I hope that this does not hurt Robert and Chuck an the rest of the guys bringing us new and exciting EDF's but enough's enough already. Tell the suppliers what we want.

Mike
Old May 22, 2008, 01:04 PM
Lmeano_from_MO is offline
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Fast Jets for Fast times
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Got some news from the fortune 200 Co. I work at yesterday and they are going to be moving some production to Vietnam as a low cost area (lower than China). They also continue to have Engineering jobs moving also. So I can imagine the quality of foamy I might get from an area that will be competing with China and still the price won't change. I agree with darmar they charge what the market will bare and no company want to give up profit.
Last edited by Lmeano_from_MO; May 22, 2008 at 07:01 PM.


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