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May 27, 2019, 04:07 PM
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freddy_fo's Avatar
I finally got around to maidening my deuces and it was a pucker experience the whole way through. I had to input almost all my uptrim to get it to fly level and on the ground there is almost 1/4 up on the elevator. This would indicate a nose heavy plane which surprises me because I am the second owner and wound up pulling some of the weight that was in the nose by the prior owner to get it to balance at the forward recommended CG. I did notice that the tail looked as if it was sagging for level flight after trimmed making me thing the main wing incidence is off (-) but it was mounted flush to the fuselage with no gaps and I know there is no twist/warp according to my incidence meter measuring root to wingtip.

The other thing is this wants to climb real bad with 1/2 flaps. I slow down to the point where it's descending on it's own, add flaps and nose up she goes. I'm afraid if I go any slower to get her level that the plane will drop out of the sky.

So I have the plane on the bench now and measuring incidence I'm 0-0 with the trim from last flight still in the elevator but -1.5 on the main wing with neutral elevator trim. This makes sense as to why the tail appeared to be dragging in flight. I've shimmed the rear wing saddle where the bolts go by about 3/16" but this leaves a gap where the fuse rests over the wing root. Still not perfect 0-0 with about -.5 on the main wing.

I'm hoping that someone here can answer a couple of things for me:

1. where do you find optimal CG? Currently after shedding the last of the weight in the nose I'm about mid-range per the manual.
2. can anyone measure relative incidence between the main wing and horizontal stabilizer and let me know what that is?
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May 27, 2019, 04:16 PM
Registered User
Freddy_fo, are the motor bulkheads O.E.M., or did the original owner fix them?
May 27, 2019, 04:23 PM
☠ -4
freddy_fo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgfinch
Freddy_fo, are the motor bulkheads O.E.M., or did the original owner fix them?
One is the other (right) was repaired badly (prop strike from a collapsed right main) by the previous owner so I had to replace it myself using 5/16" 5 ply. I did strengthen the other though so it does not flex and the gap between the nacelles and spinner is even all the way around. As I recall there is no detectable change in attitude transitioning between power and no power so that tells me the thrust angles are correct for the motors.
May 27, 2019, 04:24 PM
Registered User
afjetmech's Avatar
Can't say where my cg is, but using 3300 mAh batteries pushed all the way aft, I did have to add weight to the tail. It also needs down elevator mixed with flaps.
May 27, 2019, 04:41 PM
Registered User
If it were mine I would check to make sure that the CG is set to factory spec and then I would fly it again.

Climb to a 5 mistakes high and then nose into a dive. With neutral elevator if the nose pitches up, you're nose heavy. If it tucks under and the dive rate increases, you're tail heavy. I know it seems counterintuitive but it works.

https://gympiemodelflyers.wordpress....the-dive-test/


I have never had one with an incidence problem of any kind.

I have four of these. Two are flying, one is on the bench under repair, and one is in the box. I am happy to stick with you via PM if it will help.

Damian
Last edited by dgfinch; May 27, 2019 at 04:55 PM.
May 27, 2019, 05:26 PM
☠ -4
freddy_fo's Avatar
I was really surprised at how difficult this plane was to fly. All my e-flite ARF's have always been good planes so this caught me a bit off guard. I do have another that's never been flown and measuring the incidence there it is pretty much 0-0 but not sure if that is correct so is why I am asking. I do know the previous owner commented about it needing a lot of runway to roll out and it may all be due to his setup and a problem with the airframe from the start. As it stands I removed the 2 ounces of weight that was in the nose.

I'll dial in some down elevator mix for flaps. I normally don't do this as I only use them on final where I'm usually slow enough that it doesn't really affect attitude but this thing is so fast coming in without I run a high risk of mucking up the gear with a slight mistake.

DG, I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it depending on how the next outing goes.
May 27, 2019, 05:52 PM
Registered User
Don't despair! When you get her dialed in I am confident that she will be your favorite. When she is dialed in she flies like a fighter and lands like a trainer. Stick with it. You are absolutely on the right track with the flaps. I land mine with a little throttle until I reach the runway apron then pitch the nose up a degree or two and cut the throttle. She settles like a trainer.

Just stick with it. Plan on giving her a day at the field. Just you, your Deuces and 10 batteries. You will have her dialed in within two flights and the other batteries will be joy!
Jun 10, 2019, 10:59 AM
stegl
My comment on balancing ; Don’t forget to add the batteries in the battery bays ! Many times have seen guys balance and then go fly and by adding batteries , shifts the airplane into a nose heavy situation. As for where you add weight ;a lot depends on motor, ESC, and battery weights. On both my Deuces I had to add weight in the tail; a couple of ounces at least and balance midpoint range, wheels down. As for pitching up when adding flaps ; normal; and the trick is to add elevator compensation slaved to flap settings. I always land with full flaps. It will fly slow.....
Jun 10, 2019, 11:47 AM
☠ -4
freddy_fo's Avatar
I just realized I forgot to update since last outing. Wing Incidence reduced to 0 by shimming rear of wing saddle, pulled all 2 ounces of weight out of the nose (installed by previous owner) and set the batteries as far back as they would go. This got me to the mid-point on balance per the manual. Much better as far as cruise attitude but still had to add a bit of up trim. I know this plane can fly / land slower than even now because one landing attempt I got blown over the edge of the runway before contact so I had to abort and go around. As slow as I was going I thought for sure the plane was going to stall but it was still very responsive and was actually climbing without power. Was going to put back up with 1/2 oz weight added to the tail but got too windy for my comfort. I think this is going to be like many of my e-flite ARFs where I wind up setting CG at the rearmost range.

Flaps thing was completely my fault. I rechecked the settings in the manual and my 1/2 flaps was set for recommended full flaps LOL. Looking at the manual I think I got confused assuming "takeoff" setting was 1/2 and then I just added more for landing as I was taught landing it always more flap than takeoff. I don't like the elevator mix as I'm too used to controlling the effects myself so I pulled that back out. Maybe once I get the CG sorted to my liking I will change my mind.

I was having a problem with the mains slightly rotating during ground ops then binding when retracting so I had to file in some flat spots on the struts for the set screws. The previous owner also used kevlar string in place of cable for the nose wheel steering. It was fraying pretty bad so I replaced with cable and re-routed the original guide tubes lower so they are more inline with the steering control horn when the nose wheel is extended (result of going to electric retracts).

I really don't understand why the previous owner set the plane up the way he did with all the added weight in the nose. Usually when I get a used plane I pretty much balance with my batteries, set up with my radio, fly and it performs well. It all makes sense why he kept telling me the plane lands fast
Jun 12, 2019, 07:23 PM
stegl
Yes this thing just doesn't want to stop flying.... with no wind ;flaps are almost a must to slow it down.
Jun 26, 2019, 05:07 PM
Registered User

Props


Just picked one of these up, wondering if I can use 11X8 props for ground clearance. Fly off grass and with this year being one of the wettest we can't mow it fast enough. Power is power 32, E-flite pro 60 amp esc, 4s 4000mah
Jun 26, 2019, 05:29 PM
Registered User
I always start the day with 13x6.5" props. The first time I nick one I switch to 12x8's. I feel as though the 13x6.5" props make the plane zippier. I don't ever have a ground clearance problem with the 12x8's.

Welcome to the Deuces club! We are a tiny bunch, but we are fanatics! :-)
Jul 09, 2019, 02:26 PM
stegl
The Deuces will certainly climb faster with the 13 inch but how well do they work on grass ? I think mine are either 11 or 12 inch.....haven’t changed in a long time. What I did find though is that if kept clean , much better performance.
Last edited by stegl; Jul 09, 2019 at 04:57 PM.
Jul 09, 2019, 03:05 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by stegl
The Deuces will certainly climb faster with the 13 inch but how well do they work on grass.
Depends on the grass. Got a putting green for a runway?

What a great airplane!!
Aug 12, 2019, 07:34 PM
Dude, I do fly all day long!
rcalldaylong's Avatar

Mine is up for sale


I haven't flown now for almost 3 years...
Just sorta lost the passion for flying...

anyways, I'd like someone else to enjoy this beautiful bird...

Too big to ship, so local pickup only.

see ad for location.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...d#post42506011


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