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Mar 25, 2020, 01:22 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Thread OP
As suggested, flying in the wind successfully includes a number of factors. The most important one IMO is experience and skill.

So, if you don't make an effort to master it, you'll miss out on a lot of flying and a lot of fun.

I know we're discussing the NB, but a good place to start learning is with a delta, the true delta shape that is.
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Mar 25, 2020, 02:17 PM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
As suggested, flying in the wind successfully includes a number of factors. The most important one IMO is experience and skill.

So, if you don't make an effort to master it, you'll miss out on a lot of flying and a lot of fun.

I know we're discussing the NB, but a good place to start learning is with a delta, the true delta shape that is.


Couldn't agree more!
Mar 25, 2020, 02:27 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
I am not familiar with the delta idea. Is that a reference to a particular plane?
Mar 25, 2020, 07:55 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Deltas love the wind and don't tip stall. They come with many different names/modifications, some with different LE sweeps or elevons with optional rudder and can be tractor, prop-in-slot or pusher. They are simple, easy to built, cheap and provide maximum fun.

Some 'flying wings' are miss labelled a delta, but are not.

Here's what I base most of my delta designs on . It's 4 ounces RTF and well tested in big wind.
Last edited by goldguy; Mar 25, 2020 at 08:05 PM.
Mar 25, 2020, 09:20 PM
30 yrs. Of Aircraft flying!
epoweredrc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingbee
My experience with EPP is limited to just one airplane, a 24” Snowball, but I’ll relate my experience. I used 9mm because the thinner stuff seemed to flimsy, but even with 9mm I needed to add a fair bit of CF to make it stiff enough. So whatever thickness you use, you’ll need something to beef it up. That said, I still think 6mm would be too thin for a 24 incher. What size NB do you have in mind? 20” or less, I’d use the thin stuff. Just plan on adding something to stiffen it up.

The real reason that I used EPP isn’t lightness, or superior flight characteristics, or low cost, because other foams beat it on those points. The real reason is resilience. Crash resistance if you will. If you’re hard on planes, fly combat etc., the EPP might actually end up cheaper in the long run. That’s why I built a Snowball from EPP, the plane is meant to be bashed and bounced. I built three of them this winter, you can see them over on the Snowball thread. The EPP version cost the most to build, by far, but it will definitely outlast the other two.

My current Nutball, the one in the pictures above, is made from Adams Readiboard, AKA Dollar Tree foamboard, with the paper removed. I read somewhere that the paper accounts for half the total weight of the foamboard, and I believe it. To keep it cheap I used plastic strapping for stiffening, and to keep it light I used the smallest gear I had. It’s not nearly as resilient as EPP, but it’s all that fragile either. In fact, without the paper the foam has more give, so it can handle a minor pounding. But still, it’s a calm day flyer, not meant for a lot of abuse.

Pardshaw, you’re too kind.

Cheers,
Dave
I think i want to build a 20 or 22 inch one. I will be using a Sunnysky 2204-1800kv motor with a 8x4 or 9x4 prop i have to look i forget. on 3 s 500mah pack and two 500HXT servos.
my $1 foam one was Flightiest plans cause i couldn't find a larger plan here for it. only the original what 18 inch i think it is.
Mar 25, 2020, 09:49 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pardshaw
Very interested in your observation that your 22" being the champion. For me, my 24" was the champion and I made several. My 24" ones all weighed around 9 to 10 ounces. I have just made a 21.5" one specifically to get below the 250 gram threshold.
I arrived at the 22 inch Nutball by chance - the foam cafeteria trays from which I made it yielded the size. It just ended up being the most convenient. The 30 inches flew beautifully but was less discrete. The 45 incher may have caused a few UFO sightings.

So I reckon we both came to roughly similar sweetspots at 22 to 24 inches.
Mar 25, 2020, 09:50 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
Deltas love the wind and don't tip stall. They come with many different names/modifications, some with different LE sweeps or elevons with optional rudder and can be tractor, prop-in-slot or pusher. They are simple, easy to built, cheap and provide maximum fun.

Some 'flying wings' are miss labelled a delta, but are not.

Here's what I base most of my delta designs on . It's 4 ounces RTF and well tested in big wind.
I will try one from your drawing. Thanks.
Mar 26, 2020, 05:48 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Deltas in the wind … Now we’re talking !!!
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Mar 26, 2020, 08:27 AM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
I've been flying the 21.5" and 19" Nutballs this morning - in grand self-isolation on my property.


I've used 4 sizes of battery - all 3S. These are 370, 460, 500 and 850mAh.


I'm still not sure I like the 19" version.... even toned down it is still pretty tricky to fly well and it doesn't really like slow very much and likes high alpha even less. So slow high alpha is hard to do and require the lightest of batteries. The thing is that it just doesn't "settle" at high alpha and will roll sharply to one side or the other. It really feels as if the dihedral tips are not getting that nice cushion of air that lighter-loaded ones get.


However, the 19" one does do a couple of things better than the 21.5". Firstly it flies faster, and when it is moving fast it is so smooth and predictable it is as good as any conventional fixed wing design. It loops and bunts beautifully and as tight as you want. Rolls are fast, but slightly "barrelly". It flies inverted with ease - far easier than its lighter sibling - and will shift into inverted using a nice smooth roll. But it needs to be moving quickly.


Because of its speed, the 19" version handles wind much better than the 21.5". But when there is no wind, because the 19" version wants to "roll off" high alpha, it can't compete with the much more lightly-loaded 21.5" version for real low, slow, graceful high alpha. And so it isn't as much fun, other than in a breeze, flown high and fast.
Mar 26, 2020, 11:28 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
Deltas love the wind and don't tip stall. They come with many different names/modifications, some with different LE sweeps or elevons with optional rudder and can be tractor, prop-in-slot or pusher. They are simple, easy to built, cheap and provide maximum fun.

Some 'flying wings' are miss labelled a delta, but are not.

Here's what I base most of my delta designs on . It's 4 ounces RTF and well tested in big wind.
Goldguy...simple question: Re: lil' Ripper dimensions
Does "root cord" exclude the elevons? (14 inches)
Or does it include the 1 5/8 inches of elevon?

Thanks,
yodada
Last edited by yodada; Mar 26, 2020 at 05:04 PM.
Mar 26, 2020, 12:55 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Here’s a 48” Delta that handles wind with no problem … virtually nothing sticking up to grab the wind … And Deltas are so much easier to balance than a disc… CG usually ~ 47%
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Mar 26, 2020, 01:44 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
And since we’re rambling on in our isolation ( apologies ) …. Just wanted to mention a disk plane that hardly anybody saw , but flew Beautifully .. No fins , but it had just the right vertical area aft of the CG , that it looped and rolled with the best of them , and was very Light , then 23 .5 ” WS ( the width of the FFF) And it was Scale … sorta ‘ Based on this authentic photo of a German Flying Saucer ( ) Elevon sweep was perfect …

You know how I love “scale" flying saucers … hahahaha
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Mar 26, 2020, 05:29 PM
Registered User
Terry Rigden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pardshaw
Well it doesn't like windy conditions very much.

Maidened it this morning (wind 12 gusting 20 mph) and it did not go well - far too windy.

Either these sub-250 gram Nutballs are more sensitive to wind than I'd expected (even though this one is relatively heavy for its meagre size) or I'm getting rusty. Or both
Funny you should say that, I just flew my 13" 27gr model ( normally flown indoors) outside in 8mph gusting to 12 and it was OK, had my full attention at all times. I put quite a bit of down trim in
Mar 26, 2020, 06:57 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
And then again , piloting skill ( the old Instinctive Thumb) has a great deal to do with flying in the higher winds …
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Yesterday, 12:49 AM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Thread OP
I'm at the point now if I have to think ................ I'll crash. Not too sure if that's considered skill.

My flying now is also dependent on the condition of the arthritis in my hands at the time, the timing of my prostate issues and how far away the whizzer is.


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