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Old Mar 11, 2008, 12:38 AM
Thomas B is offline
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Interesting poll over at RCU...should slow movin EDFs fly with fast turbine jets?


Looks like a little foam EDF BAE Hawk took out Thomas Singers big Fiberclassics Mig 29 turbine model at Florida Jets last weekend.

A coworker of mine started this poll over on RCU....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_71..._1/key_/tm.htm

In the aerospace industry, we would call that a cost effective kill...

(JUST KIDDING, of course.....)
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Old Mar 11, 2008, 02:20 AM
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Get your Facts Strait.... the poll is for the following

Should stinkin foamys be allowed in the same airspace as a high dollar turbine jet?


I say that Stinkin Foamys that fly within the park flyer rules (see ama website)do not belong anywhere near High Dollar Turbine Jets.....
They should go fly in the Park Flyer area of the field, that's if your field has a park flyer area.

Now on another note, High performance EDF's (that fly well over 100MHP) are ok to fly in the same airspace as High Dollar Turbines, just as long as they still yield to them 200mph suckers from time to time.

But Just remember there is a time and place for all sorts of flying, you just need to know how to judge when it's appropriate to go and take your jet up, it's definatly not appropriate to fly a Foamy EDF when you have a someone in the air with a Hot Spot zooming by at 220MPH. And i know for sure that most turbine guys don't fly when there is a zoo of foam and or balsa (especialy those 3D guys) flying.

Gene
Old Mar 11, 2008, 02:26 AM
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Mid-airs happen at all fly-ins. Would he have felt better if he`d have had a midair with another turbine?

Maybe it would be a good idea at jet rallies to have a time period for sub 100mph planes and one for 100+ planes. Or some other speed break point.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 02:43 AM
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I think that accidents like what happened at Florida Jets will continue if not spark a whole new Hate for foamy EDF's. Most guys I talk to that are not friends when I have gone to jet rally's kinda snub you off or at least me, When they ask if I fly jets and I say yeah sorta I fly EDF's. Thats not a jet is usually the answer I have gotten. I remember too at the last rally I tried to talk to a guy that had an EDF conversion and seemed like he was almost embarrased to talk about it.

Bottom line is Foamy EDF's or EDF's period are kinda looked down on at least in my experiences. The some of guys I fly with at my local college also fly at the AMA field usually take the gas or turbine stuff out there and the electrics to the school. Seem odd?

Jason
Old Mar 11, 2008, 03:11 AM
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Ok read through it and changed my opinion in it! lol I think it sucks it happened but! if one spends the big bucks on there plane its up to them to protect there investment and properly judge the environment the plan to fly in.

Barry
Last edited by monkamarm2000; Mar 11, 2008 at 03:37 AM.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 04:09 AM
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If the foam model has a similar or better airspeed than a turbine model,I can see no problem sharing the same airspace.
What I don't like is 3D hovering (regardless if foam or huge composite) hovering around when flying conventional planes.

Also,as pointed out earlier,it could have crashed into another turbine.That is sometimes an aspect of this hobby which is unpalatable and can happen anywhere.

Personally, I wouldn't fly an expensive turbine with anyone else flying,simple really.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 09:00 AM
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And on the other hand.... we each have the right to fly our planes... and we each have the responsibility to fly them safely.

It is the responsibility of the pilot to make sure he or she operates the aircraft in a safe manner, and if that means slowing down around other aircraft, or flying higher or at the other end of the field then that's the way it goes.

Hovering aircraft, especially helicopters over the runway or 3D's near the runway, or an errant bird are all obstacles which are possible crash causers and we expect pilots of fast aircraft to have enough control over their aircraft to avoid them. If they can't then they should stay on the ground and admire their aircraft.

I fly jets and some of the fastest aircraft at our field so I can sympathize with the problem of slower aircraft in the airspace, and I don't like it when I get midaired, but that is why they are called accidents. It still is the pilots job to be aware of his surroundings and operate his aircraft accordingly.

I could be wrong, but isn't that why we have the waiver for jets, proof that we can operate a fast high power plane safely. Perhaps a spotter?
Old Mar 11, 2008, 09:08 AM
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Dosen`t look that bad?
Old Mar 11, 2008, 09:36 AM
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I was there, it does not matter how expensive the planes are or how fast they fly. We have spotters that are supposed to help us avoid this type of situation. There were turbo props flying at this event as well and that T45 foamy was comparable in speed to the slower turbo prop I saw fly. Say what you want, the large and expensive Mig 29 crew was at fault here. The air space was not crowded at all due to the high winds. I was suprised at how well all the foamy jets handled the 30+ mph wind gusts.
Last edited by jentres; Mar 11, 2008 at 09:41 AM.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 09:50 AM
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Don't let the day come when contest directors tell me I can't fly my EDF, foam, balsa, composite or otherwise. If they are advertising a jet rally then all jets fly. Now if they advertise turbines only I would know not to show up!

cooper998
Old Mar 11, 2008, 10:43 AM
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Everyone was at fault in this accident. But the fact remains that the Foam Hawk was flying downwind over the runway OPPOSITE THE PATTERN!
If hawk pilot had maintained the pattern, the accident would not have happened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jentres
I was there, it does not matter how expensive the planes are or how fast they fly. We have spotters that are supposed to help us avoid this type of situation. There were turbo props flying at this event as well and that T45 foamy was comparable in speed to the slower turbo prop I saw fly. Say what you want, the large and expensive Mig 29 crew was at fault here. The air space was not crowded at all due to the high winds. I was suprised at how well all the foamy jets handled the 30+ mph wind gusts.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 10:45 AM
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It wasn't me...
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Grist for the mill...

MiG vs. Hawk
Last edited by DanSavage; Mar 11, 2008 at 11:00 AM.
Old Mar 11, 2008, 10:49 AM
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How's the Hawk?
Old Mar 11, 2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini
Everyone was at fault in this accident. But the fact remains that the Foam Hawk was flying downwind over the runway OPPOSITE THE PATTERN!
If hawk pilot had maintained the pattern, the accident would not have happened.
Bob
What do you know? You were there. and most likely witnessed the mid air .. How's it feel now to be back in all that snow
Semper Fi
Joe
Old Mar 11, 2008, 10:54 AM
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I eat glue
Seriously though, why was the Hawk going against the pattern, was he blown around by the wind too much? I know I myself would be very leary about flying at an event. I fly at a small field where I'm the only flyer, and as a result I sometimes tend to just fly what ever kind of pattern I want, which could set bad habits for when I fly with other people.


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