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Mar 02, 2008, 09:35 AM
AZ Outback
Robert Burson's Avatar
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Contest

X5J eXtreme March 22,23rd Sign-Up


Welcome, back for the fifth year.


Introducing a new class that will run with the X5J eXtreme rules except without a handicap on motor type.

This class will go under the name X5J America. Any electric sailplane may fly this class provided they use 4cells of the A123 type and weigh a minimum of 2.0kg or 70.7oz. The concept is to develop a design around a single power source, with a required weight. Most new chargers can now charge this cell and add on boards are starting to show up for older chargers. The cells cost about 10.00 each in the DIY format, and 18.00 as loose cells. They are able to produce up to 120A of current and maybe charged at 10A, with no risk of fire. This is my attempt to create a simple to monitor set of rules, in an electric soaring format.

I will score this class seperate from the X5J eXtreme, but place them in the final standing.

>>>HOPE YOU CAN ALL MAKE IT OUT FOR MARCH eXtreme<<<

Remember all photos of new ships and OLE favorites are encouraged.

Please read all rules, if you have not flown this event before, everyone else, will note they are unchaned from 2007.

X5J eXtreme Rules:

1. Any electric powered sailplane can enter this contest.

2. There will be three 10minute flights. One point per second of flight time is scored and, one point deducted for each second over the 10minute-flight time. Maximum points possible 600. Round to the closest second for your flight time.

Example 9minutes 50seconds = 540pts + 50pts = 590pts
10minutes 4seconds = 600pts 4pts = 596pts

3. Motor run time is unlimited but subtracted from the flight time.

Example, 600 flight pts - 19 motor run pts = 581 total round pts.

4. Landing points to be measured from the center of the landing circle, to the closest part of the plane. For each meter from the point subtract 3 points from 30pts . See attached file for table.

5. Motor handicap: brushless 95%, brushed Cobalt and brushed car motors 75%, Ferrite 45%, and outrunners with a 28mm or less bell diameter and 17mm length 68%, Speed400 30%. The X5J America Class will have no motor handicap. Actual motor run rounded to the closest second. Then multiplied by the motor percentage. Round this calculated value to the closest 1/10th of a second.

Example Cobalt motor time 34 .6seconds = 35seconds X 0.75 = 26.25seconds = 26.3 seconds


6. You may restart your, motor as many times, as needed, but on the second motor start, you may not add landing points. A second way of stating this rule. If you start your motor after launch run of the motor, you will not receive any landing points.

7. Your flight is limited, a single dawn to dusk flight day of your choosing, during a 48 hour period.

8. Any type of battery cell is legal.

9. Temperature Factor to be added to total flight score. See the attachment for the temperature table.



Timers still need two stopwatches, this was easier then I thought it would be. Work out a signal with the pilot, if he is going to restart the motor. (I.e. "restarting...on...off")

This is the simplest way of scoring I have been able to come up with.

Flight time - closest second
Motor run - closest second
Calculated motor run - closest 1/10th of a second
Landing points - see table Rule #3


To compete: Please list your plane, gearbox, prop, cells and type, weight, and any other interesting facts, pictures are always welcome, to this thread.If someone else, not on the Web would like to fly with you please list him or her, on or by March 21st.

To all who enter,

The Best Soaring

Robert
Last edited by Robert Burson; Mar 22, 2008 at 02:22 PM.
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Mar 02, 2008, 10:26 AM
ASK
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Entering from New Mexico. Must fly on the 23rd, weather permitting. 22nd is a travel day for me. I'll dash out from the shop for the three flights, then back to finishing planes for people.

Flying the first of three LightHawk E prototypes. This one is a high power configuration (ridiculous climb ), the other two configs are medium and low power. The concept (now under construction) is an electric fuse that works in a plug & play fashion with the LightHawk DLG wing, and is tested for balance and performance with three different configurations. Target AUWs are 13, 12, and 10 oz., respectively. In this case I'm borrowing Denny Maize's Lap Dancer fuse (very nice) for the first flights.

High Power LightHawk E
AUW ~13 oz.
  • Hacker 20-20L Outrunner
  • 14 x 8 Aeronaut Folder
  • PolyRC 2S, 700 mAh, 30C
  • Phoenix 25 ESC
Mar 02, 2008, 10:41 AM
AZ Outback
Robert Burson's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Ask,

Pictures, pictures, pictures. Sounds like a great design, I knew the outrunner class would be a hard class to handicap. Perhaps it would be better to have a 1.5m wingspan class for outrunners. Would you guys in New Mexico be interested? Gald to have you in the comp.


Just a note there is a full scale glider called the Light Hawk
The Best Soaring

Robert
Mar 02, 2008, 12:18 PM
ASK
ASK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Burson
Pictures, pictures, pictures. Sounds like a great design, I knew the outrunner class would be a hard class to handicap. Perhaps it would be better to have a 1.5m wingspan class for outrunners. Would you guys in New Mexico be interested?
Pictures later. Still pushing parts around.

After first flights using Denny's fuse, we'll do a lost foam prototype for the real fuse. The main purpose is to check the balancing for the different configurations, before we start making molds. There will probably not be an under wing space to move weight, so we've gotta get the design spot on. In at least two of the three configations, the tail servos are mounting within the rudder to balance the power system.

Albuquerque Soaring Association and X5J
Dunno about drawing the rest of the guys to fly X5J. They're a great group, and include those behind the unlimited motor run kind of thinking. Lots of electric soaring in our mix of flying, so it's possible.

Separate Class?
These postal rules seem like a good way to get everybody flying, regardless of craft. We probably don't want to separate the 1.5 meter guys out yet.

It's hard to tell how the potentially high climb rates and potentially lightweight configurations (low sink rates) will balance against the ~800 ft launch limit (visibility ceiling) for the small spans. They might have a tough time, or might be great at X5J. We'll find out soon enough.

Handicapping Motors / Types
If it helps, I can supply data points for climb rate on the different ways people do the 28 mm diameter outrunners, and we'll get a new set of data using the 1.5 meter planes. The primary variable is always weight! I have a 17.5 oz. Outrunner (unobtanium) that goes up at 2000 fpm using the same Hacker and a 13 x 9 folder. In a 20 oz. airplane, the climb rate is much lower.

Given that data point, how fast will a 13 oz. 1.5 meter glider climb with the same motor? It's going to be faster, first guess ranges from 15 to 20 seconds in motor run. I guess the more important question will be: Can a 13 oz. 1.5 meter make 9:45 from 800 feet consistantly. Maybe...
Last edited by ASK; Mar 02, 2008 at 03:41 PM.
Mar 02, 2008, 03:34 PM
Hello!
I am in again. I'll be flying my new AVA E (Build log on Swedish here!) or my new Blaster1E , If I have time for get ready .. (Build log on Swedish here!)

Johan www.rc-glider.com/
Mar 02, 2008, 07:53 PM
AZ Outback
Robert Burson's Avatar
Thread OP
Hello Johan L,

Checked out your site, and really liked the original way you are handling the AVA nosecose attachment. Plus, the red MVVS motor looks interesting.
Mar 03, 2008, 05:25 AM
Registered User
ohmite's Avatar
I'm in again too. High Aspect 3.1E with a Hacker B40/9L+4.4+15x10 prop and 3s1p TP3300 EX pack. I can only hope that Spring has sprung by then! Hope for good weather and much lift!
-Eric
Mar 03, 2008, 11:29 PM
what makes that thing go
ploof's Avatar
I'll put in with the E Blaster 2 of mine.

Hi there ASK

I can't wait to see this Light Hawk of yours, I'm sure it will be a real gem. This power system of yours sounds a little scarey, will you be using binoculars while your fly ?

That Speed 400 ship you had made a while back was a work of art. That ship was a major inspiration for me to get into motorized gliders, that and the fact that I have to range pretty far out at my flying feild to find good clean thermals.

Nice build Johan, that motor looks like some serious business.

Take care, Ploof
Mar 03, 2008, 11:54 PM
ASK
ASK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ploof
I can't wait to see this Light Hawk of yours, I'm sure it will be a real gem. This power system of yours sounds a little scarey, will you be using binoculars while your fly ?
I'm also excited by it. I get a kick out the idea that we can put a (low) power system in it, and reach an AUW that weighs less the max ballasted weight of the DLG version.

From my experience so far, and from watching unlimited ships go up (which are usually climbing well above 3000 fpm), the only concerns I have are keeping the glider pointed up, and turning off at the right time. 5 seconds extra climb with that tiny span might be a bad thing.

Quote:
That Speed 400 ship you had made a while back was a work of art. That ship was a major inspiration for me to get into motorized gliders, that and the fact that I have to range pretty far out at my flying feild to find good clean thermals.
Thank you. Glad it triggered your interest. It's been a great glider, especially after I put in that little Hacker 20-20L outrunner.

ASK
Last edited by ASK; Mar 04, 2008 at 10:36 PM.
Mar 04, 2008, 04:14 PM
the kitty litter of rcgroups
rdwoebke's Avatar
I'm in again. Probably fly either Allegro Lite or Paragon.


Ryan
Latest blog entry: Supergee wing mount pylons
Mar 04, 2008, 09:06 PM
what makes that thing go
ploof's Avatar
Hey there ASK

I've actauly just resently been able to get my E Blaster 2 to climb at around 3100 fpm.

It actualy hasn't proven to be anymore a challenge to control then say 2100 fpm, it's freaquently windy around here, and the increased speeds help to maintain authority over gusty air.

Ploof
Mar 04, 2008, 10:37 PM
ASK
ASK
Registered User
ASK's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ploof
Hey there ASK

I've actauly just resently been able to get my E Blaster 2 to climb at around 3100 fpm.

It actualy hasn't proven to be anymore a challenge to control then say 2100 fpm, it's freaquently windy around here, and the increased speeds help to maintain authority over gusty air.

Ploof
Cool! If you don't mind sharing, what are the power system components, and the AUW?
Mar 04, 2008, 11:26 PM
what makes that thing go
ploof's Avatar
Hey there ASK

I've been running this setup for a while on old lipo's, and just a little while back got a couple new packs.

AXI 2212/20

Jeti Spin 22

Thunderpower 910mah 3s

Robbe 11x7 prop. (I tried a few similarly sized props but this has produced the best climbs) with very little warming of the system.

with a weight of 17.5 oz.


I'm getting the feeling your Light hawk will be going substantialy faster.

Take care, Ploof
Mar 05, 2008, 05:56 AM
Registered User
Test005's Avatar
I'm in.
Gong to fit a Zlog altitude logger to my plane, otherise it's the same ol' Tango



Setup:
Rivamodels 'Tango'
AXI 2820/10
Hacker Master 70 Opto
10x6 aeronaut folding
3s 2250mah Loong-Max
Mar 05, 2008, 07:41 AM
mostly gliders
liukku's Avatar
Cool, he use a sixshooter to refule the lipo

/Ville


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