Thread Tools
Mar 17, 2008, 12:36 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
hklam

Believe me....I have tried to make pigtails. The ones with a flat bearing (what comes with the kits) in front and a small looped wire to hold up prop wire. A complete bearing from .015 wire, .020 wire and even on some smaller stock (was easier to bend). You could start a wire factory with the stuff I've thrown out. Finally.. even got a round nosed pliers. They only allowed me to make better LOOKING mistakes. Nothing I made even came close to working as well as the Harlan bearing. And all of mine were heavier. If you know of a better way to twist up one of these things, I'm listening. But till I can make one 1/2 as good as Harlan's I'm sticking with it, even on the mini. I got a smaller one that's made for .013 wire.

Would prefer to roll my own. Like the idea of totally making a plane from scratch. However, so far, the talent for pigtails, has eluded me. And I got a suspicion, nothing I can ever do, will improve on the genius of that Harlan bearing. Do have one talent, am able to recognize, near perfection when I see it. Hope Ray never sees this, his head will never fit in his hat again.

erich
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 17, 2008, 03:26 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Took the plunge, glued stab and fin to motor tube. Slight angle to stab, and back of fin got offset about 1/4". Also added abut 1/8" shim under TE of stab. After checking balance with prop and rubber installed, added the tubes. Took my time making sure they were inline with motor and fin. Used the t-pin method of aligning it, and then pushing through to other side. Gradually filed out hole, checking with tube and a post to make sure it got centered in motor stick. Second tube was a little easier, just had to make sure it was in-line with rear tube & post, and square to fuselage. After glue had set, trimmed bottom of tube, so it wouldn't stick out to much and get snagged on rubber. Finished, by adding braces to wing tubes. Soon as glue seemed dry enough, mounted wing, and added some clay to nose to balance plane. Did a few hand tosses in the living room. Without the weight of the rubber and drag of the prop, it flew slowwww, and elegant. Didn't drop more then 5 or so inches before reaching the wall. Hell of a glide ratio.

Sooooo...back up to 4 planes in hangar, awaiting the inevitable, destruction. Will see, tonight.

Goin flyin.

erich
Mar 18, 2008, 09:05 AM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
One broken wing, one broken rubber motor, two loose fins. That's the casualty list from yesterdays flying session. Overall, did some flyin, learned a thing or two, and had fun. Started out bad though. Course I had to fly the new and improved blue ezb, right away. Well...in my hurry to get out on the floor, walked a little to fast. Yup...the wing broke, course I didn't believe what I saw, and since the motor was wound up anyway, I tossed the thing, hoping for some kind of flight. Nope, straight into the floor. Even broke the wing in a second place. Quite certain, I heard a few chuckles from the electric-heli-boys (would have laughed myself, but for the pain and disgrace). What a start to the night!

Flew ezb #1 (the tank) for 2 flights of about 40 seconds ea. This thing never gets any higher then about 15'. So pulled out the mini. Never even got to fly it. After putting on 500 turns, broke band while trying to put it on rear hook. Yea forgot to put on an 0 ring. The rubber for this thing is so small I impaled it on the rear hook. Then, couldn't even find the remnants. Course that was the only small rubber I had, and of course, no stripper. So...went to old faithful (so far anyway), the pp. Got a couple of good flights, then the thing got hung up on a retracted backboard. Luckily someone showed up with a long pole. We got it off the backboard, and like the energizer rabbit, it kept on flying. Flew for another 3 minutes in fact. Somehow got 2 - 6:30 flights out of the pp. Yay! And since my luck was changing, found the remnants of the tiny mini rubber, and tied it back up with 2 o-rings this time. Then, even though the ministicks are suppose to be a little difficult to fly (what I heard), got a minute or so on first flight. Got 2 more flights of abut 1:30 min each, after putting about 900 turns on rubber. Next flight the mini did what looked like a complete barrel roll, then crashed. Launched it again, another barrel roll. The rudder had come loose. So that was it for the mini. The pp also had a loose rudder, which we reglued and flew one more time getting just over 6 min. on the last flight of the night.

It was an rc electric meet. I was the only guy with rubber power. You can probably imagine, what that looked like. About 30 or so rc pilots, 6-7 of which were flying at all times, and me in the middle tossing up a plane which could be wiped out by a mere close pass. Worked out fine though not one incident with a power plane, or heli. The pp must of intimidated the rc pilots.

erich
Mar 18, 2008, 11:23 AM
more balsa please!
dcloin's Avatar
erich,

Sounds like a good time. I feel that I'm going to be in your same position being the only guy flying rubber. I"m bringing the stringless wonder to our indoor electricy fly on Wednesday. I was able to call A2Z before they shipped my order out and ordered the mini also. After seeing your pictures I figured I'd give it a try. Should be interesting and educational making the prop. That part does have me a little worried.

I'm leaving in about a week for work. Will be living in a hotel for a few months. That is one of the reasons I started checking out the indoor rubber planes. Something that doesn't take a lot of space I can build in the hotel room. Im going to bring my balsa buiding board, cutting mat, scrap balsa and a couple kits. Hopefully I'll be able to find a place to fly.

Thanks for posting, I check for updates every day.

Darvin
Mar 18, 2008, 12:19 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Darvin

Felt the same way about props, before I had ever made one. Now I find it the easiest and funnest part of the whole process. Ron's book really helped. Some great diagrams on prop making (pg 84). Used his bottle proccess (to curve blades) the first time. Then made the wood block jig, which he describes further on. Was intimidated by the heated, bending proccess, but that was easy too. Just followed his steps. Hey.. the worse that can happen, is, you burn the house down. Good luck.

erich
Mar 18, 2008, 06:38 PM
more balsa please!
dcloin's Avatar
Nice looking props. I received notification that my order from A2Z has shipped today, so will be looking forward to the mini and making a prop of my own. I know that the kits come with everythig, but there are a few things I'm not sure about still. What glue are you using on the wood, and what glue for covering. I did'nt order any glue. So will be using CA for now. I did read in Ron's book that it is'nt always the best choice if you have to take things apart to make adjustment. I have some debonder, but have'nt really used it much. Also I did'nt get any bearings or hooks. I figured I could make my own when I build from scratch.... then I read about your success or lack of as you described it. I'll give it a try with what I have for now, then progress form there. Ooh, and I forgot to get a razor plane. How necessary is that. I did travel to a hobby shop in Louisville on Saturday It's about an hour away. I arrived about 3 minutes aftery they had closed. So did'nt get to buy a plane there.

Darvin
Mar 18, 2008, 06:59 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
The first couple of planes I used elmers. Then went to Ambroid, which is what most indoor guys use (am fairly sure about that). The ambroid sets faster, and can't warp the wood. The actual fact is I use what ever glue suits the situation, sometimes elmers (or titebond) , or ambroid. With ambroid if you have to reglue, the new glue kinda melts the old glue, so making it easier to reglue. The mini kit comes with the bearing. You only have to bend the front one a little. I was talking about Ron's fancy pigtail creations, which I can't seem to duplicate at all. Cause the first couple of planes I built were scratched (no kit), I was forced to make the bearings. Till I ran into Rays little gems. A razor plane is handy, but not used much with this kinda building. NOW sanding blocks is what you really need. Got a lesson on how to make em for indoor planes from Ray Harlan. Made up about 6 of em, use them almost continously. Get some double edge razor blades and break em in half, using the pointed end to cut thin balsa. Found building this indoor stuff is a whole different world then the outdoor planes.

erich
Mar 19, 2008, 07:10 AM
more balsa please!
dcloin's Avatar
I have sanding blocks. I"m sort of an obsessive compulsive when it comes to details. I sand every piece of my outdoor models. I use 320 and 400. I'll have to pick up some 600 if it becomes necessary. I'll also have to pick up some ambroid. I'll probably just use some CA for a little while. It was interesting to read that the ambroid sort-of melts the old glue, I'm sure that does make a tighter fit. I did order some double edge razor blades from A2Z. Upon looking I found that you can't buy those in the store anymore. At least not in KY.

Darvin
Mar 19, 2008, 08:03 AM
Closed Account
The main reason for using Ambroid is that it can be dissolved with acetone or lacquer thinners so that a joint can be adjusted or redone. It also works like BMatt describes above to pre-glue and then bring a joint together with thinned glue or dope; that's a great idea and new to me. I tried it with some scrap and it works well.
Mar 19, 2008, 09:18 AM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Darvin...yea I had trouble finding the blades too, but luckily I had some from the 80's. Believe A2Z carries them. The thinner blades really work better on light balsa. Hope to see a plane soon.

Tried BMatt's, double glue thing, on a new motor tube. It kept the weight down and made for a quick setting seam job. Which really helps, since you gotta hold the seam together by hand till it sets, an inch at a time. Was going to try duco but ended up using ambroid thinned with acetone, for the tube. Brushed the stuff on lightly waited half a minute then put on second thin coat, and held together. Worked great. The new motor tube (front and back joined) weighs almost half of the old one, where I used straight ambroid. Thanks for the help B for Bruce.

RON, going to have a go at your Columbia II, plan. Have traced the plan and am planning on starting with fuselage sides. Should be doing a pennyplane next, but, just couldn't resist that built up fuselage. The best part are the drawings, for the wheels, especially the spoked ones. Am looking forward to the frustration of making those, come out well. Looking at the drawing of the npp, No Non-cents pg. 90, can't wait to give that one a try also. So many planes to build.... so little time and space.

erich
Mar 19, 2008, 08:17 PM
more balsa please!
dcloin's Avatar
Erich,

Sorry if were getting off the origional subject of your forum. Seems that the discussion had evolved to all things rubber powered or maybe building lessons. Anyhow, I do enjoy it.

All,

I flew my stringless wonder tonight inside. First flight I put about 450 winds on it (who can really count when turning each wind by hand). Flew half a circle and landed on the ground. I adjusted the rudder and wound it up to about 500 and gave it a toss. It flew level for about 2 1/2 rotations, about 20 ft diameter. Third time about 500 winds and I had someone time. Flew about 1 1/2 rotations and came to the ground. I figured it must have been about 30-40 seconds. I was disappointed when they told me it was 12 seconds. Wow, I have a long way to go. There was'nt a third flight as I learned 700 winds was too much for the motor on it. Luckily no damage to the plane. I was winding it up during the "meeting" portion of our flying. Everyone was voting on a model rocket club using our field. Anyway, it snapped and I had to explain that 700 is just too many. Got a few laughs.

The SW (stringless wonder) is nose heavy. I've added clay to the tail, but really hate adding weight to a plane. I think I'll shorten the stick, or build another and move the "wing" forward. I just cant make myself add more weight. Seems counter productive to build light and add weight.

I may get a couple pictures from tonight, if I do I'll post them. I'll have to see if they guy with the camera e-mails them to me.

Also guess I need to order some ambroid.

Happy flying,
Darvin
Mar 19, 2008, 09:18 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Darvin

Classic! Hang in there. Can you move the wing at all. If you can that would be better then adding ballast, especially to the tail!?

Gotta get back to building, have started on an indoor cabin model. Wait till you see this one, called Columbia II, with plans taken right from the bible.

erich
Mar 20, 2008, 12:12 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Having finished an ezb, with the weight of a pennyplane, the next logical step would be to build my own pp. The next type of plane in the book (Building and Flying Indoor Models), just happens to be pennyplanes. That was sorta the plan anyway, work my way through the book picking out models of the different classes. Scanning ahead in the book, saw a plane called columbia II, a class called manhattan cabin. With a full size drawing of this plane on pg. 160, found myself tracing the plan. Guess the columbia II is the next project.

Did kinda of a lousy job on the tracing of fuselage. Books don't like to lie flat. But since the 2nd fuselage side is to be built over the 1st, 100% accuracy in outline is probably not needed. At least I hope not. For now got the plans taped to board and started framing fuselage. Picked out the heaviest 1/16" sq. pieces from an indoor starter package of wood (probably from a2z), for the longerons. With all the angled fitting of pieces here, decided to use elmers instead of the ambroid. Mostly, cause am more familiar with that type of glue.

erich
Mar 20, 2008, 10:43 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Have added the 1/16" sq. uprights. Used a little softer wood here, saving the lightest stuff for the back. Again using elmers. As an added benefit it's a little less messy then the ambroid. It does take a little longer to set. Using the time to figure out, how in the....am I going to make the wheels for this thing??

erich
Mar 21, 2008, 01:03 PM
Registered User
erich's Avatar
Thread OP
Next to be added are the diagonal braces. Used 1/32 x 1/16 here, again real soft (light) wood. Seems soft to me anyway. Cut double angles were diagonals meet uprights and longerons, as accurately as possible, at this scale.

erich


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools