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Jan 22, 2008, 04:35 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
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Profile Super Crusader Build


Had some more time, while waiting for the hustler to dry, roughed out the outline from the 3-view last night, and cut out the parts at lunch. I'm designing this one for a park 300 to run a 6x5.5 or 5x5 prop on 3S 800 pack.
Will do full flying tailerons on this one, like my Mig 21, no ailerons. I've placed the pieces together to show what it will look like. I did stub ventral fins, since they would most likely just get ripped off on belly landing being so low and long, the stubs give the idea anyway. I'll probably also remove some from the center section where the doublers cover to save a few grams.

Total airframe weight is 3.7 oz. All up weight should be in the 8-9 ounce range.

I now will have so many silver planes, I think I will have this one be white with the red test markings just to be different.


Enjoy.
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Jan 22, 2008, 04:55 PM
Retired and Lovin' it!
TPfingston's Avatar
Your 'concept to completion" time is outrageous. Its just unbelievable how fast you go from 'idea' to 'airframe'. I'm having a ball just watching.

Tony
Jan 22, 2008, 05:09 PM
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Thanks! Unfortunately I'm stalled in the completion waiting for some motors and receivers, at this rate I'm going to have a 4 plane maiden backlog by the end of the week Honestly, I need to take a break and fly a bit more.
Everytime I finish one, I think, "there, that's the last one I really wanted to model", then I remember some other damn thing I always wanted to model and fly, and off I go.

Frank


Quote:
Originally Posted by tpfing
Your 'concept to completion" time is outrageous. Its just unbelievable how fast you go from 'idea' to 'airframe'. I'm having a ball just watching.

Tony
Jan 22, 2008, 05:31 PM
Sticks & Stones
Strick's Avatar
Darn, what an inspiration you have been. The Crusader is my favorite naval aircraft, as soon as possible I will have to build one!!!! Do not know how you keep pumping them out at such a high rate and all the subjects have flown nice and appear very stable when slowed in the videos. And the subjects you have chosen are all "10s"!!!!

Like having a few planes to slow down and fly in tight areas. Started as a Sloper Steve Slofly Pilot and still love em! Just ready for a style change! Keep up the great thinking and production!

Richard

P.S. Please share some plans with us !!
Last edited by Strick; Jan 22, 2008 at 06:22 PM. Reason: P.S. added
Jan 22, 2008, 06:17 PM
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Ok, will do, I'm hoping to motivate people who haven't designed a plane before. My design philosophy is:

Have a decent size wing area for the weight, so you can fly slow and tight and land easy. Make them stiff enought that you can push them if you want some speed. Give a decent look to the plane, it should look like what it is supposed to, for the most part, they are just literal upscaling of the 3 views I have, in a few cases I've fudged on the wing area just a tiny bit, sometimes they need a little artistic license since the body doesn't have any thickness, to prevent overly long tail surfaces when you make them extend to the profile body.

Make them stiff and strong enough to hold up to belly landings, most are single center section with doublers on the fuse sides. Keep the thrust line close to the center of the plane or wing axis if possible.

Calculate MAC, normally a swept wing CG is coming out at around 35% mac, and a delta is around 15% mac, but I always hand glide the empty airframe first, with a slight nose up attitude, get the CG so that it will pitch over into a nose down glide, and use that for the initial flight CG.

I like to choose planes that I can do a good looking color scheme by using monokote trim, not that takes a bunch of custom decals. I also like to choose a decent length so that I can balance the motor with battery without having to add weight, that kind of depends on the plane and how far back the motor is relatively.

And, I'm just a sucker for the Xplanes, century series, and 50's/60's era planes. Also, doing a profile allows you to make a decent wing loading of designs that would be difficult to build, or fragile/complcated if you were to make them full in the round. With the parkjet motors, anything in the 12-20 ounce range will have much more than a 1:1 thrust/weight ratio making either long runtimes, or lots of vertical.

Try just scaling up a 3 view, draw the wing/tail, and fuse, then figure out a doubler, normally I don't extend the doubler all the way forward, I chose a good point to end the doubler where it will give some outline or definition, like engine intakes, or a canopy outline, or something. I like the doubler to extend far enough so that when I use my securing strap through the fuse, it has enough meat to not pull through.

I usually add just a single carbon spar if needed, and do one in the nose and tail, just a thin carbon strip, slit the foam, insert and CA for stiffness. I don't have the doubler cover the tail, normally it doesn't need it, and it will just make added weight. I let the carbon tail spar stick down an inch or two into where the doubler overlaps.

I've tried a couple where I've rounded the fuse sides, to make them look more like a rounded fuse, but I don't know if I like it as well, it kind of softens the lines too much, and I think for a profile I like them just straight, given the weight and power available, I don't think they really need any streamlining.

Some guys really like all the detail and trying to hide all the controlls, etc, I'm more into flying something that looks good in the air and that represents something I like, I don't care if it has the correct unit markings if it flies well.

Frank


Quote:
Originally Posted by Strick
Darn, what an inspiration you have been. The Crusader is my favorite naval aircraft, as soon as possible I will have to build one!!!! Do not know how you keep pumping them out at such a high rate and all the subjects have flown nice and appear very stable when slowed in the videos. And the subjects you have chosen are all "10s"!!!!

Like having a few planes to slow down and fly in tight areas. Started as a Sloper Steve Slofly Pilot and still love em! Just ready for a style change! Keep up the great thinking and production!

Richard
Jan 22, 2008, 06:40 PM
Sticks & Stones
Strick's Avatar
Being a 53 years old Air Force Brat, I well remember my Dad's aircraft. T-bird, the F-86D, the F-100 in Thunderbird paint scheme, B-47, B-58 Hustler, B-52, and even saw an XB-70.

Must admit that after spending weeks building the old Flyline Kits, I developed a love affair and hated to fly them. Quick build profiles have a feeling of accomplishment, a beauty in flight, and no tears when lost to Gravity. Quit nitpicking and counting rivets and enjoy flying so much more than is believable!!!

Please release a plan on the Crusader or the F-100 similar to the X-15 !!!

Thanks Richard
Jan 22, 2008, 07:14 PM
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Thread OP
I'll see what I can do on the plans, Starcad was nice enough to help on one plan, but he has other things to do, I'll see if I can get kinko's or some place to scan in my paper drawing, that might need some minor measuring on the users part to make sure any tabs or slots line up right, but should be pretty good for getting the shape and surfaces right.

Frank




Quote:
Originally Posted by Strick
Being a 53 years old Air Force Brat, I well remember my Dad's aircraft. T-bird, the F-86D, the F-100 in Thunderbird paint scheme, B-47, B-58 Hustler, B-52, and even saw an XB-70.

Must admit that after spending weeks building the old Flyline Kits, I developed a love affair and hated to fly them. Quick build profiles have a feeling of accomplishment, a beauty in flight, and no tears when lost to Gravity. Quit nitpicking and counting rivets and enjoy flying so much more than is believable!!!

Please release a plan on the Crusader or the F-100 similar to the X-15 !!!

Thanks Richard
Jan 23, 2008, 03:26 AM
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Finished up the airframe and finishing, just need to screw in the motor, mount the receiver and speed control, and put in the two servos.

Glide test showed a CG at about 32%mac was about right.

Frank
Jan 23, 2008, 07:12 PM
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Thread OP

maiden


Got it finished up this morning, it was about 30 degrees, but clear and no wind. with all of the finishing trim, AUW came out at 10.5 ounces with an 800 3s pack, 2 ounces heavier than I wanted. After the handlaunch, it was obvious that it was under powered, it flew, but not very quickly, and roll rate was slow, mostly due to the low airspeed. I landed and increased the throws, and did another short flight, but the wind picked up a bit, and I got too slow downwind, and the motor didn't have enough power to power out of it, it pitched up(cg was also apparently a little too far back) straight up, flipped over, and not enough room for pull out, straight in on that nice pointy nose

Fortunately, my carbon reinforcing took most of the brunt, and I was able to simply cut/splice a new carbon piece, and new nose section, and it is good as new.

I replaced the motor with a purple peril, and a 3s 1320 pack, which moved the CG forward, and I also put the purple peril thrust line a bit further up closer to the wing.

It made a huge difference, it now flies great, lands very easily, loops are nice and tight. Rolls are not very axial, which I was worried about because the tail is much lower than the wing, and this played out, kind of like tight barrel rolls, but authority was quite good. I did a second and third flight this afternoon, when it was really gusty, it handled it fine. Looks great in the air with that color scheme. I'll post a video later tonight.

I pulled the purple peril out of my Su-27 XXl shockflyer, and put in a grayson parkjet, it handled the extra weight fine, and in the big wind, I had one very nice elevator landing, just straight down keeping it horizontal. I'll post that video also


Frank
Jan 24, 2008, 01:43 AM
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Here's the link to the maiden video, and just to prove that everything doesn't always go perfectly, even if you do all the calculations, and a chuckie, I put in the bad, as well as the repaired-good-as-new and re-motored 2nd maiden

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...88&postcount=1
Jan 24, 2008, 08:02 AM
AMA 667982 KG7NKY
starcad's Avatar
Sorry Frank for the delay. I got bit last week by the "CRUD". I think it's Rod's fault, sending it my way all the way over from across the pond. I plan on uncovering the plotter this weekend and plotting out the designs to check the dimensions again before I send them up in PDF. Not sure why the x15 prints the way it does as all the dimensions check in CAD. I'll send up something Saturday or Sunday.

Guy
Jan 24, 2008, 09:50 AM
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No problem.

Frank


Quote:
Originally Posted by starcad
Sorry Frank for the delay. I got bit last week by the "CRUD". I think it's Rod's fault, sending it my way all the way over from across the pond. I plan on uncovering the plotter this weekend and plotting out the designs to check the dimensions again before I send them up in PDF. Not sure why the x15 prints the way it does as all the dimensions check in CAD. I'll send up something Saturday or Sunday.

Guy
Jan 24, 2008, 11:26 AM
The Ultimate Interceptor!
DeltaDart's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcad
Sorry Frank for the delay. I got bit last week by the "CRUD". I think it's Rod's fault, sending it my way all the way over from across the pond. I plan on uncovering the plotter this weekend and plotting out the designs to check the dimensions again before I send them up in PDF. Not sure why the x15 prints the way it does as all the dimensions check in CAD. I'll send up something Saturday or Sunday.

Guy
Sorry about that Guy...better be careful which attachments you open Seriously though, I sure hope you didn't get the same strain that I had, it was a nasty one and really beat me up. BTW, I'm still working on the plans for the Six and hope to have them ready sometime soon. Unfortunately, work has been consuming most of my time and because of that, I may end up asking for someone to do a beta test build like beanie does. Anyway, take care and I hope your feeling better now.

Frank, watched your video and it was nice to see you spending some quality time with the mrs..... The LSPP really made the difference and looks like another great flying West Coast DAF design. I still can't believe how many neat planes you've pumped out recently. Is something in the que now?

Rod
Jan 24, 2008, 11:44 AM
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Just finishing the Queue now, I took the B-58 for the maiden before painting, as I wanted to be sure the CG, and the forward engine pylons didn't screw things up, let's just say for someone who liked Deltas, this was my best one yet, about 3 clicks of down trim, and two of right, and that was it, loops, rolls, everything else, I've gotta say, that grayson motor sure has the punch, AUW so far is 19 oz, unpainted, I flew at a good clip, scale speed at half throttle, landing was just "chop the power, let it settle, and flare slightly", I was worried about the motor pylons and underbelly pod catching on the grass, but it just touched down on the rear of the motors, and slid to a nice stop. It was 24 degrees this morning, but the electronics held out, even though I found this morning I had left my spektrum on last night when I put it away. The maiden was so sweet, I didn't even fly the entire battery, and I didn't even fly the second battery. All I can say is once painted, it will look majestic in the air, just looks like a Hustler should, I couldn't get it to stall, just waggle the wings, just about 1/4 throttle, it would just tool around slightly nose up, at 60% throttle, it just kept going vertical, I never got to full throttle.


Yes, my wife was very nice to volunteer, and I had to clip out a bunch of the arguing about why the heck she couldn't find the plane in the viewfinder when I was flying the mig21. My battery ran dead before we got a decent landing on film

Frank



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaDart
Sorry about that Guy...better be careful which attachments you open Seriously though, I sure hope you didn't get the same strain that I had, it was a nasty one and really beat me up. BTW, I'm still working on the plans for the Six and hope to have them ready sometime soon. Unfortunately, work has been consuming most of my time and because of that, I may end up asking for someone to do a beta test build like beanie does. Anyway, take care and I hope your feeling better now.

Frank, watched your video and it was nice to see you spending some quality time with the mrs..... The LSPP really made the difference and looks like another great flying West Coast DAF design. I still can't believe how many neat planes you've pumped out recently. Is something in the que now?

Rod
Jan 24, 2008, 01:25 PM
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Thread OP
After looking at the videos again, I think with the lower tail surfaces with respect to the wing, and also the similar thing with my F-105, is that with the tailerons, they work better when thrust, wing, tail are all down the same axis, for the planes where the tail is higher or lower, the roll is much less axial and has much less authority. I think if I were to build another one, I'd keep the full flying tail for elevator, and put ailerons on the crusader. As it is, it is still a nice fun park flyer, and has fine authority for most flying around.

Frank


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