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Jan 13, 2008, 08:28 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
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Profile F-100 Super Sabre, build...


Well, sort of a build, I started drawing the plans from the 3-view on paper yesterday morning after a sleepless night of wondering if it would be a thud or a hun, hun won out mostly due to the color schemes I liked. I finished the plans by 11, and started cutting depron at 3. I got so carried away, I forgot to take photos of the build, but it's similar to my lightning and arrow. Main fuse made out of 6mm depron, two side doublers, vertical tail integral with the main fuse, with a single 1/8" by 1/64 carbon stiffener. I used a 3/8" stick mount. Cutouts on each of the fuse doublers to fit a 3/8" by 1/4" spruce 3" long plate that supports the pivot for the full flying stabilator.

Wing is a single piece of 6mm depron with one horizontal flat 1/8x1/64 carbon on edge, and another 1/8" carbon rod plus two 1/8x1/64 flat reinforcing pieces that glue to the main round spar and support the wing tips. Hinge tape for the ailerons. I was concerned with potentially needing the heavier battery so I beefed up the wing with the extra carbon, glued and then taped on the bottom.


For the first time I used one of the grayson super parkjet motors, a 2212-6 or something, it pulled too much with a 7x6 like I run in the lsspj, around 28 amps, so I propped down to a 6x5.5. I was able to use an eflite stick mount with a little reaming of the holes. I put the thrust line in line with the wing.

To save a little weight, I made a pivot horn out of 1/16 by 3/8" carbon instead of using a steering horn like on the lightning. The only downside of the grayson motor was the weight, my lsspj's normally are light enough I can get by with a 1320 pack near the nose for proper CG, but with this motor I had to go up to a 2100 pack. Length was sized for 39" depron sheets I have, WS was around 31.5" or so. Airframe weight was near to 6.5 oz, AUW rtf with hs-55's and a spektrum 6100 receiver and 36 amp Tbird controller and TP 2100 was 17-17.5 oz(my scale ends at 16 and my other one starts reliably at 16. Wing area turned out to be around 260 sq inches.

The one advantage of the profiles is that they are light enough before adding components that you can slip them together and do glide testes in the house before commiting to the CG. Since I cut a recess for my battery I like this.

Glide tests showed the CG was at 9.5" from the front of the wing, which was just slightly ahead of 50% of the chord at the fuse.

I bevelled and sanded the edges to give it a little more of the round fuse look.

Last night I had it ready to finish, I tried some of the testors metalizers for the first time. Aluminum, and titanium for the rear engine section. It sprays on with good coverage, and then polishes to a shine. All was well till I tried to put on decals, and they would pull off very easily taking a layer of the silver with them So, I went to the LHS this morning and got some of the sealer they sell for this, worked better, and went over the monokote trim and decals I had fine, but I'm still a bit worried about this.

I chose a color scheme from the back of one of the "In action" books. I ran out of numbers, and didn't have the USAF, letters, so I wasn't able to finish that yet.

Maiden video to follow.

My son Max modeling the plane, good side, and ugly side with the electronics.

Frank
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Jan 13, 2008, 09:24 PM
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Joe 1320's Avatar
Wow.... looks super!
Jan 13, 2008, 11:25 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
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Flew awesome, probably the best of the five different planes I've done since Xmas, just great with the sun glinting off the plane, just a teaser, I'm working on the video now...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 1320
Wow.... looks super!
Jan 13, 2008, 11:37 PM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
See, this is what I meant. We're up to a plane every two days or so. You ARE the West Coast DAF! Looks good BTW.

J
Latest blog entry: A2D Skyshark at 1/8th scale
Jan 13, 2008, 11:56 PM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
That's pretty sweet..

I really need to build a 100...

Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com
Jan 14, 2008, 01:03 AM
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Maiden video


Here is the link to the video thread.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...99&postcount=1

The maiden was just great, thanks again to my daughter Olivia for video, and for my son, Max for being a photo model

Hand launch just went straight out of my hand and up at about 60 degrees or so, I literally put in a tad of up trim, and just one or two clicks of aileron.
I trimmed it out on two circuits of the field, then started wringing it out, probably one of the best maidens in a while.

Roll rate was just outstanding, Pitch was a little sensitive on low rates, but I prefer that to being sluggish. Plane was very neutral, loops were nice and tight, inverted took just a whisker of down, hardly any, low speed was much nicer than I was expecting, very controllable, lost a little altitude on a sharp nose up turn, but putting in a bit of throttle during the turn prevented that.
High speed was great, you could hover and then accellerate vertical out of it with this motor and prop. Power off glide was slight nose down, almost hands off decent, flare response at touchdown was pretty good.

I'll need to finish off the markings in the next week or two as I figure out where I can get them.

I have to say, I've always liked the hun, and with the Sun glinting off the aluminum, it was just a great maiden, looked really nice in the air, and the 2100 pack, didn't slow it down as you can see. As good as the Arrow and the Lightning flew, I think this is the best of the three to my eyes for overall performance.

Enjoy.

Frank
Jan 14, 2008, 02:09 AM
GEA
GEA
Props are for boats
GEA's Avatar
Frank
Wow, looks great on that video! You have good taste in the choice of jets.
Apart from that, your daughter should know that she is doing an awesome job at filming them.
Nice flying too! Keep 'em comin'!
/GEA
Jan 14, 2008, 04:27 AM
The Ultimate Interceptor!
DeltaDart's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by burkefj
Flew awesome, probably the best of the five different planes I've done since Xmas, just great with the sun glinting off the plane, just a teaser, I'm working on the video now...
Only five planes since Christmas? Your falling well short of our expectations Frank. You need to get serious about the hobby and start working a little more diligently to meet quota. (What was it that Pharoah would say.."MAKE MORE BRICKS"...lol)

BTW, awesome job, the HUN looks beautiful just like the others....

Rod
Jan 14, 2008, 08:25 AM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
Nice video, gotta love a Hun.

J
Latest blog entry: A2D Skyshark at 1/8th scale
Jan 14, 2008, 10:58 AM
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CrocEnd's Avatar
Nice vid well filmed.
Now PDF plans and size's
PLEASE
Jan 14, 2008, 12:05 PM
Kiss the Sky
electriceye's Avatar
5 planes since Christmas?!! Blimey!!! I thought I built enough to wonder if I needed therapy, but 5 since Christmas is definately electric shock treatment time (Only joking!!!) What are the 5 you built? Are you going to post the plans for your F100??
Jan 14, 2008, 12:44 PM
what goes up...
ezrydr's Avatar
Frank, that is very cool - I am in awe.

how is it that there is no airfoil on that wing and it flies so well?

forgive me if it's a stupid question but I am rather new to this hobby.

Thanks,
Steve
Jan 14, 2008, 01:29 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
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Hee Hee, I'm sick. Yes, the problem was that my lovely family bought me three kits for xmas and the corresponding receiver/speed control/motors/servos.

I already had some spares for two more(one micro and one small). So, once I started and saw how well they worked and what fun it was to design and fly my own, I scarfed all the electronics out of the kits and there wasn't anything stopping me but some drawing time and about 8 sheets of depron

A micro F-106, X-15, Avro Arrow, BAC Lightning, and F-100, all the video and pictures are in the pusher prop section. Basically all (but the F-106 which I sized for an eflite park 180 I had) are direct scaling from a 3-view using a ruler and calculator for relative dimensions, scaled for a 39" maximum length which is what my depron size is, I didn't want to do any splicing. All but the X-15 use a sandwich of a center fuse piece with integral vertical stab. I put a strip of carbon in the vertical tail to make it stiff and extend it down into the fuse to where the two side fuse doublers will overlap and support it. The center fuse has the cockpit and spine, the doublers usually go forward to where the engine inlets stop, I only reinforce the nose with carbon on the Arrow since it had a long unsupported nose.

All used a stick mount with the thrust on the wing centerline, and I stuck with scale wing and tail outlines. X-15 and Arrow used some tab and slot construction since the X-15 was only single thickness, and the arrow had the wing on top so I wanted somethign to center and lock it in place.

I just use double back tape for servos, and direct short linkages, taping the wires to the wing. The elevator servos for full flying was crossways in the fuse since the fuse thickness allowed that, and I glued it in place with some epoxy spots.

I double back tape the receiver and speed control and tape the wires down with hinge tape from dubro, and use that same tape for the control surfaces, that stuff is really stick, and gives the most free movement of any I've found. Taped top and bottom. I used dubro micro control horns that have two splined spikes that simply poke into the foam, then I pull and epoxy them in. I mount everything except the left aileron on the right hand body side, including the battery to counteract torque, and that has given me minimal trim issues during powered flight, and I haven't noticed any drastic rolling when chopping the power.

I always assemble and test glide the airframe, minus the electronics(taping the controls neutral) in my house, I start with a CG that looks right, or is comperable to somethign else I've seen or have. I then glide them slight nose up, if they pitch over and go into a normal nose down glide I use that, if they pitch nose up, then the CG needs to be more forward. The advantage of the profiles is they are light enough empty that you can do this without risk of breaking something.

I usually cut a recess through the first layer of depron on the righthand side once I'm hapy with the battery placement, and UHU glue in some velcro to locate the battery,I also run two slots above and below the battery to allow a strap to secure it. It isn't the prettiest but it works well, and you don't really notice when flying it.

I was a bit concerned with how well the full flying tail would hold up, I epoxied the carbon rod and then taped it, but it seems like it is working fine, I also applied some carbon in the wings, basically till it seemed stiff enough in the unsupported directions. I'm able to horse them around and they seem to be fine, but I don't abuse my planes, I'm careful and don't purposely stick them into a full power dive and give full controls, I'm sure you could break them if you tried give the super parket power available, so if that's your thing you should reinforce more. I don't like putting carbon in the fuse, just more work, and I don't build my stuff to crash, but to stand up to minor landing scuffing is all, with the sandwich of the 6mm, you wind up with a pretty stuff airframe as it is. I use UHU por for the fuse sides, is light and sticks really well.

That's it, no more secrets.

Problem is I don't have any more electronics, but I do have paper and depron left.....

Frank





Quote:
Originally Posted by electriceye
5 planes since Christmas?!! Blimey!!! I thought I built enough to wonder if I needed therapy, but 5 since Christmas is definately electric shock treatment time (Only joking!!!) What are the 5 you built? Are you going to post the plans for your F100??
Last edited by burkefj; Jan 14, 2008 at 01:38 PM.
Jan 14, 2008, 01:33 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
Thread OP
Basically if you get a slight angle of the wing with respect to direction of flight, that generates lift, It doesn't take much, just a minor amount of trim. if you get enough surface area, with a low enough weight, pretty much anythign will glide, I was amazed when I bought my first depron kit, an Ikarus Shockflyer SU-27 XXL jet, you could just chop the throttle and it would settle like a leaf.

Frank



Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrydr
Frank, that is very cool - I am in awe.

how is it that there is no airfoil on that wing and it flies so well?

forgive me if it's a stupid question but I am rather new to this hobby.

Thanks,
Steve
Jan 14, 2008, 01:39 PM
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burkefj's Avatar
Thread OP
Someone pm'd me about weight for the sabre, here's how it broke down:

If I remember right, it was around 6.5 ounces without paint/decals, but with the motor stick and taileron epoxied in place.

The motor, mount and prop were 68 grams, the 36 amp Tbird was around 28 grams with long wiring and connector, servos were 8 grams eachx3, and receiver 4 grams, plus the battery was 5 ounces, AUW was around 17-17.5, so that leaves

7.5-8 ounces painted weight. for the airframe/motor stick. Which makes sense, as I used 1.25 cans of the silver paint(small testors cans) and one can of clear overcoat, plus the monokote trim.

I thought about cutting some hollowing holes in the center fuse, but the best places to do it were forward and I needed forward weight anyway, as it turned out once I had to go to the 2100, it wouldn't have mattered. If you used a little screamer, I think you could cut around an ounce on the tail end, and that would allow a 1320 pack on the front. That would allow cutting 3 ounces from the overall weight.

With a 1320 pack all the way forward still leaving room for a strap, and one ounce of nose weight I could balance, barely, when I switched to the 2100 I moved that battery back slightly.

As you can see from the video the airframe handles weight fine and it lands pretty slowly in any case, but I would rather have saved the 3 ounces, but for a $17 motor, it workes pretty well.

Frank


[QUOTE=Cdr.Instigator][QUOTE=burkefj]Sorry, I've been posting on several of my planes lately, which one are you asking about, Lightning, Arrow, F-100, X-15, F-106??

Frank


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