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Dec 22, 2002, 02:53 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
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Conspiracy theory.... and practice..

The TWA 880 event is spawning its own cottage industry of conspiracy theories, similar to that Mark Lane initiated with JFK. CDR Donaldson in the Lane role.
Much credence is placed on two things.. the 'given' that the government is lying to us, and eyewitness testimonies which support the 'given', just as with JFK.
Eyewitness testimony is good only to the extent that the person giving it hasn't been contaminated by other sources about the same event prior to giving the testimony, which usually means immeidately after the occurence, not days, weeks or months later, when the memory gets scrambled by other events or information relative to it.
Most of such testimony will be sincere, but not always factual.
For TWA 800 for instance, no one was observing it prior to its disintegration. Just as no one was expecting JFK to be shot.
And few of these witnesses have experience observing how planes crash.. few of us will ever see one.
I've seen two planes catch fire in the air and crash fatally.. on the second, I heard someone say
"There's the parachute!!!".. There wasn't any parachute, the pilot rode it into the ground.
It's stuff such as this that makes eyewitness testimony suspect, if interesting, but it's the hard evidence that matters.
This site referenced below (thanks SoaringDragon) is a good place to start, if you want to scare yourself. It is heavily biased against the official explanation..

"Relevant data from the Eyewitness Group Factual Report:"
"Based on the data, 183 witnesses said they saw a streak of light, 201 said they saw one or more explosions, 100 said they
heard one or more explosions, and 339 said they saw a fireball.
Of the 183 who observed a streak of light, 102 gave information about the origin of the streak. Six said the streak
originated from the air, and 96 said that it originated from the surface. Of the 96 who said it originated from the surface, 40
said it originated from the sea and 10 said it originated from land.
One hundred and twenty-eight witnesses reported an immediate end to the streak, 85 described it ending in an explosion, 32
said it ended in a fireball, and 11 said it ended in a flash. "
The thing to do with these statements is to determine the locations of each person, and view the CIA video from that location to see how much (if any) can explain what they reported.
Should be simple.. just ask the CIA for the computer program.. after all, it does belong to us.
Dec 22, 2002, 09:35 PM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar
As was aptly stated in an earlier thread, those that believe will believe, and those that don't won't. Human psychology insures that we have a pre-programed agenda for maintaining the belief system that we each have developed since birth.

Notwithstanding the occurance of an Epiphany, (an event so rare ase to warrant it's own word) evidence of any sort is unlikely to change a person's mind about some deeply held belief. A person is even likely to ignore either absolute proof, or conversely to greedily accept tenuous anectdotal evidence as absolute proof, depending on what viewpoint they hold dear.

Occam's razor applies. On the other hand, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Dec 22, 2002, 10:00 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Thread OP
This type of discussion generally leads to flames and personal attack, and is really more suited for the lunacy of the 'net instead of here.
It requires a very thick skin to persevere in face of virulent attacks..
so.. I'll bail on this one..
Dec 23, 2002, 01:05 AM
Senior Member
sguty's Avatar
There's a wonderful sci-fi story from the late 60s or early 70s (I'd have to go through my old collection of Analogs and comparable fare in my parents' house on the wrong coast to provide an exact citation) in which UFOs exist, with a mission to do occasional low fly-bys here but leave no hard evidence.
The second part of their mission was to monitor public opinion polls on Earth as to the existence of UFOs.
Since most of the respondents had strong opinions as to whether UFOs did or didn't exist, the fact that only 2 or 3% responded, 'I don't know' did not support a finding of intelligent life on the planet, and the ETs went back to whence they came.
Dec 23, 2002, 05:30 AM
Silent Flight
daveWCO's Avatar

Sparky Paul is Right

Too bad he is leaving the discussion.

In the meantime...
Dec 23, 2002, 10:49 AM
Apparently there's a large percentage of the population that don't believe men ever landed on the moon and that the landing was staged in a studio.
Dec 23, 2002, 11:30 AM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar

S.P.! You've sounded retreat before the enemy even took the field!

I never would've thought it...

Oh well...

Originally posted by Vonbaron
Apparently there's a large percentage of the population that don't believe men ever landed on the moon and that the landing was staged in a studio.
Amazingly there is a larger percentage that believe that Man DID land on the moon!

An occurance even more fanciful, regardless of how true it is.
Dec 23, 2002, 11:47 AM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Thread OP
Ir, I din't say I wasn't gonna lurk.
The "agenda" word had already surfaced in the other thread.. That's the first shot in the smear tactics of those who cannot abide an opposing viewpoint.
Dec 23, 2002, 08:06 PM
Go get them Meg!
lrsudog's Avatar

Ahh, perhaps I should've said "Motive"...

And we all have motivation to not change our perspective. Belief dies hard, even if that belief is in nothing.

Personally, having worked for Uncle Sugar, I believe that it couldn't hide a candle flame on the sun...

Of course "Taken" may have changed my mind.
Dec 23, 2002, 10:25 PM

We have seen this guy before........

dave WCO...Wasn't that guy on top of the Twin Towers when the plane hit? Dang! He has done it again hasn't he? Better take this guy in for questioning before he breaks something else!! jeff
Dec 23, 2002, 10:58 PM
Silent Flight
daveWCO's Avatar

Tourist Guy


Good luck pinning that guy down. He really gets around. Perhaps he's from another planet???

Scroll down the page.

Last edited by daveWCO; Dec 23, 2002 at 11:01 PM.
Dec 24, 2002, 05:28 AM
I don't think it's accurate to say a large part disbelieves in the moon landing, I think the term "lunatic fringe" is more apt.

How's this for a conspiracy theory? Powerful elements in the corporate world, right-wing politicians & the mass media conspire to make US citizens believe there is a strike going on in Venezuela? Could happen...

"The only difference between a dope with a vocabulary, and a dope, is a vocabulary." - Troy Sclummick
Last edited by SoaringDragon; Dec 24, 2002 at 08:00 AM.

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