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Dec 31, 2007, 09:18 AM
You sabotaged my plane.
eliworm's Avatar
Thread OP
Yippee!

F-15 with thrust vectoring.


Inspired by tomhe with his MIG-29
and F-22

I have drawn up a simple F15 with thrust vectoring. I test flew the jet yesterday and it flys well. We guessed at the CG and got it right the first time. I have a few minor changes I would like to do to the plan before I make it available but I thought I would throw some photos on line. There is also a good chance that 6mmflyrc will have this one in the near future for people who do not like to cut foam.

Thanks to Segraves for providing the tiled PDFs.

6mmflyrc now has the F-15 for those who do not want to cut their own. Check it out here. 6mmflyrc F-15


specs are...
span 28.68
length 41.77
motors tested
Scorpion 2205-40 1551kv outrunner with 7x5e prop.
Scorpion 2205-32 1980kv 130 Watt Brushless Motor
GH2212-06 Brushless Motor & GraysonHobby 30A ESC
2212-06 brushless motor 2200KV 28A
CG 23.75" from the tip of the nose.

I closed the other thread as there was a lot of needless info that people would have to sort through trying to find info on this plane. So now we can try again.

Edit: I added Birdofplay's SOG (Slide On Ground) version here so it wouldn't get lost in the thread. See post #302
Jim
Last edited by eliworm; Aug 14, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Dec 31, 2007, 09:31 AM
Crash & Burn
rmgmag's Avatar
Great looking plane. I downloaded the plans a couple of days ago from your first thread. I'm waiting for the hot wire cutter that I ordered, to arrive before I start building it.

I've noticed that most of these pusher/mid-mounted prop jets don't have rudders. I've built a couple of them, some with rudders and some without.

Just wondering why most people including yourself, design these without a rudder?

Bob
Dec 31, 2007, 10:13 AM
Eli, Thanks man. This will be my next build. Dave
Dec 31, 2007, 10:18 AM
You sabotaged my plane.
eliworm's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgmag
Great looking plane. I downloaded the plans a couple of days ago from your first thread. I'm waiting for the hot wire cutter that I ordered, to arrive before I start building it.

I've noticed that most of these pusher/mid-mounted prop jets don't have rudders. I've built a couple of them, some with rudders and some without.

Just wondering why most people including yourself, design these without a rudder?

Bob
Hi Bob,
I'm not sure about others, but I think I'm too lazy. I 'm a stickler for weight. I do keep them as light as I can and leaving off the rudder is an easy way for me. I have been flying these planes with tailerons but I would like to try ailerons as well as rudders.

Dave, make sure you post some photos.

Jim
Dec 31, 2007, 10:21 AM
Elevons are the way to go. Yank and bank, baby!
Dec 31, 2007, 12:53 PM
Retired CAD guy
birdofplay's Avatar
I put rudder on my Mig-29.

IF !?!?! I iLike it then It'll go on future TV planes too.

NW weather just wont cooperate lately :-(
Dec 31, 2007, 01:05 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Jim,

Got most of the patterns cut out from the plans yesterday. Hoping to get some foam cut tomorrow and will try to have a completed plane by this weekend, with video as well. Thanks for putting this out here (and thanks to Bill Segraves for getting the file tiled!).

FWIW, none of my TV jets have rudders. So far all are dual rudder birds and I've had no desire to add that much weight (or expense) to these planes. They fly dandy without. Like CC said, yank and bank baby!

Pat
Last edited by crxmanpat; Dec 31, 2007 at 01:19 PM.
Dec 31, 2007, 01:13 PM
Winging it >
leadfeather's Avatar

Crazy idea


Nice plane Eli, way to go!

I like the Tomhe approach to vector the thrust, the simplest solution is usually the best one.

Here is the crazy idea bit. If you pivoted you motor in the yaw direction you might get the great high alpha handling that yaw VT adds. I've never seen it done with prop in slot before, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I think it might be easier to implement than rudders; maybe???
Dec 31, 2007, 01:22 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxmanpat
...Thanks for putting this out here (and thanks to Bill Segraves for getting the file tiled!).
You're very welcome, Pat. BTW, please see PM to you.

...

Cheers, and Happy New Year!
Bill Segraves
Last edited by segraves; Sep 01, 2015 at 06:29 PM.
Dec 31, 2007, 01:38 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by segraves
BTW, please see PM to you.
Already taken care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by segraves
I like your avatar. It reminds me of my unintentional inverted flight in my Cessna 150, when I flew into the lingering wake turbulence from some Weekend Warriors flying low and slow out of Willow Grove, PA.
Wow, that must have been some ride! I still remember all those tower warnings of wake turbulance when I was granted clearance right after a commercial jet had just taken off.

Closest thrill I got was when an ANG A-7D Corsair II came screaming over the runway right after I had taken off. No wonder the tower wanted me to make an immediate right turn.

Pat
Dec 31, 2007, 01:41 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfeather
Nice plane Eli, way to go!

I like the Tomhe approach to vector the thrust, the simplest solution is usually the best one.

Here is the crazy idea bit. If you pivoted you motor in the yaw direction you might get the great high alpha handling that yaw VT adds. I've never seen it done with prop in slot before, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I think it might be easier to implement than rudders; maybe???
Indeed it is.

I like Tomhe's approach, as well. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but placing the elevon tabs in the slipstream of the prop also provides an effective way to counteract the torque effect from the propeller.

Your suggested enhancement, Dan, together with the Tomhe-style enhanced pitch and roll control, could add yaw control to the mix.

I'm reminded of the aluminum extrusion combination heatsink and stick mount style of motor mount, the mounting hole of which could easily be utilized with a hinge pin instead of screws. Of course, the prop slot would have to be shaped to accomodate the range of motion of the prop. Prop-in-slot experts may have opinions on the effects of opening up the slot for prop clearance.

Happy New Year!
Bill Segraves
Dec 31, 2007, 01:53 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Bill,

Is this the one you're talking about?

http://www.bmkdesigns.net/Outrunner-...nt-pr-235.html

Pat
Dec 31, 2007, 02:09 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxmanpat
Already taken care of! [Thanks!]

Wow, that must have been some ride! I still remember all those tower warnings of wake turbulence when I was granted clearance right after a commercial jet had just taken off. ...

Pat
It was indeed. The C-130s were almost out of sight, several of them flying in trail, so I was already alert to the possibility of wake turbulence. It gave me a personal example that I could tell to my students about why they should avoid wake turbulence from "heavies" especially when they are flying low and low.

...

Seriously, wake turbulence is a big problem with mixed GA and commercial operations at large airports. GA pilots who are thoroughly familiar with wake turbulence avoidance procedures are (can be) well-rewarded for their study efforts, while those who are not may not be with us for long.

Cheers,
Bill Segraves
Last edited by segraves; Sep 01, 2015 at 06:30 PM.
Dec 31, 2007, 02:20 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxmanpat
Bill,

Is this the one you're talking about?

http://www.bmkdesigns.net/Outrunner-...nt-pr-235.html

Pat
Yes. In addition, I've seen a similar one that's a radial mount to stick mount adapter, not an extrusion, but appearing to be fabricated from flat aluminum stock, perhaps heat-treated, and black-anodized.

IMO, with a side-mounting arrangement, the stick would have to be mounted off-center to get the axis of the motor centered in the airframe. There would still be some fore-and-aft movement of the motor if this mount were used as a (sort of) yaw gimbal, but for a few degrees of motion, right or left, ISTM it might work.

Another alternative might be to mount it on the stick upright, with the ends of the stick rounded (in plan view), and with a horizontal bow-tie shaped slot in the stick like so |X|, to allow freedom of motion about the yaw axis of the mount. In this case, the stick could be mounted in the conventional location, i.e., centered.

I'm not at all certain that either of these alternatives would be a satisfactory approach, as the clearances from the stick modifications might (1) weaken the stick, (2) allow excessive vibration with a poorly-balanced motor-prop combination, and/or (3) reduce the first critical speed of the motor-prop to an unaccepatble range.

Dan (leadfeather), has anyone calculated (or determined by test) the first critical speed of a typical CD-type motor with prop? Rigidly-mounted? Flexibly-mounted?

Cheers,
Bill Segraves

...
Last edited by segraves; Sep 01, 2015 at 06:38 PM.
Dec 31, 2007, 02:55 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Jim,

Who else of use "local" guys has this? I'd like to check it out Saturday if I haven't got mine done by then.

Pat


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