ebay shops - RC Groups
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Dec 21, 2007, 05:19 PM
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ebay shops


I want to tell you guys about an ebay shop my good friend had dealings with last week.

He bought an ARF fromm a guy in Sydney who operates under a name thast has 'Super' in it.

The ARF arrived, but was faulty, so he emailed and asked that the fauolty bit/s be replaced. The answer was that since it was sold below cost (which it wasn't by a long shot) warranty didn't apply. Now this guy advertises a 7 day warranty (in contravention of Australian consumer laws) but still wouldn't comply with his own advertised warranty.

Seems he picked the wrong guy because my friend is a solicitor specializing in consumer law!! This is going to get nasty with court already mentioned. He's just going to bypass the ebay dispute resolution procedure which is a toothless tiger, and favours the bigger ebay client in any dispute anyway.

What the ebay shop super guy has to take into account is that when something goes up for auction, he takes a risk that it won't bring as much as he wanted or thought it would. He's sold these ARF's on ebay for as much as $200 before, but this one wasn't much over $100, so it was a lot less, but still a money making venture, especially when charged postage is $35, but actual is less than $20.

Get ready Mr Super ebay store owner, because things are going to get hot.
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Dec 21, 2007, 05:29 PM
Psionic001's Avatar
Toothless tiger yes....

I recently left a neutral feedback for a RC item.
In turn the seller gave me negative! Then proceeded to apologise and said it was a virus that caused the auto negative response. He then blackmailed me into a mutual withdrawal.

I showed this evidence to ebay, and even with this crooks apology email, ebay would not remove the negative feedback.

Angry!!!!!!!

Matt
Dec 21, 2007, 06:58 PM
Registered User
It's unfortunate that we almost can't do without ebay these days though.

It sounds a lot like Mr Super ebay store owner. May mate was told that unless he gave positive feedback, with no undertaking that he would be recompensed for the faulty product, he had no chance of receiving anything. It was all on trust, and that was trust of an unreliable, dishonest dealer. For a solicitor, that was like a red rag to a bull, and it's now on.

He says it is a bordeerline blackmail case, and may even go to the police even though the case seems trifling.

It is very handy for buying and selling hobby items, and I've never had a bad experience, and even a few very satisfactory experiences, above and beyond just a buy/sell.

I felt it necessary to send out a warning about this unscrupulous ebay store owner. Be careful.
Last edited by Retired Aviator; Dec 21, 2007 at 07:00 PM. Reason: addition
Dec 21, 2007, 08:50 PM
Only one more Honey
bidlynd's Avatar
Aviator,

Could you tell us what part was faulty, was it electric or gas plane?

I have bought from this ebay seller before and he seems OK. But that said I haven't had any faulty items.

It might be a money making venture but you have to take the good with the bad my plane only cost $40. If I bought it in a store it would have cost at least $150, so I got an absolute bargain.

The postage is clearly stated before the auction and you have to take into account the handling and packing, my item was well wrapped in bubble wrap.

Don't get me wrong I'm not on anyone's side and I don't doubt your friend has been mistreated, just pointing out other considerations.

Wish your friend the best of luck.
Dec 21, 2007, 09:39 PM
Registered User
The cowl was cracked bidyland, and as I understand it not as a result of shipping. The fibreglass at that point was so thin it was like a piece of very thin paper.

I, and he, understand the postage thing, but the surplus postage must be taken into account as profit. I'm surprised that ebay aren't onto that as they don't get commission on postage. I'm sure you've seen the Hong Kong ads, buy now for $2 and postage is $25.

That is exactly the point I make; you have to take the good with the bad, so if an occasional sale goes for under cost, then he has to honour it. If it's broken, then he has an obligation to fix it, regardless.

I bet he sells a dozen at good profits for every one he sells at or close to cost.

He's about to find out about the court system according to my mate, and as a solicitor, legal costs will be nothing and the oppositions will be considerable.

I just had a call from my mate, and there's more. Mr Super ebay store owner says he doesn't want to deal with him again because he insisted on having the problem fixed. It would have been cheaper to send a whole new ARF than cop the costs he's about to. Costs will run to at least ten times the cost of an ARF, and at least 20 ARF profits.
Dec 21, 2007, 10:03 PM
Registered User
Cliffysstuff's Avatar
I'll be watching this thread with great intrest.......keep the commentary coming Retired..........I did hear somewhere that Ebay was going to crack down on the postage profit scams.
Dec 21, 2007, 10:36 PM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
I am not known for my like of overseas Ebay at all but as bidlynd said the postage & handling from this local seller is clearly stated, and ebay rules allow for handling costs be that travel time and costs to ship it off, packing, materials etc.

My guess is most of the boxes are fairly big which means if you were to pay cubed rates they would work out to about what is being quoted anyway.

I will get the popcorn ready Mick, this should be interesting
Dec 21, 2007, 11:39 PM
aclosedmouthgathersnofoot
freeble's Avatar
awesome, about time Ebay took a beating! i had a similar problem with albeit a very cheap and flimsy bi-plane. when i complained that the motor was different to the one advertised the seller refused to acknowedge my emails and when i got the "toothless tiger" involved he said he would send me the correct motor (at my own postage cost!) 13 days later i got.......the SAME motor!!!!!
Dec 21, 2007, 11:55 PM
Magicsmoke maker
Inflexo's Avatar
Freeble,

Yes, but if you join them together, you'll now have DOUBLE POWER!!!

Dec 22, 2007, 12:15 AM
aclosedmouthgathersnofoot
freeble's Avatar
yeah 'spose...you're a glass half full type person eh pldaniels!
p.s the biplane in question is long gone, parts of it (including the motor) a now part of a rough looking swamp boat i built for a laugh
Dec 22, 2007, 12:28 AM
Registered User
Extreme RC, I bet you have an online shop, maybe even an ebay shop??

I am well aware of the ebay rules, as is my friend. But it is a scam, without doubt. I just phoned my mate and out of interest he cubed the box and it could have been sent via Aust Post for $22. He's not bitching about the postage incidentally, just makes the point that the profit on postage must be taken into account as profit on the deal.

I've sold a number of things on ebay, and I live in the country, several kms from the PO, but I just email the buyer and say that I'll drop it off at the PO next trip which is always within a day or two.

This is a guy who is selling thousands of items a year.

My mate is not taking on ebay, just excluding them from the process because he sees them as a toothles tiger.

freeble, are you talking about the same ebay shop?

Cases against individuals do succeed. Quite recently there was one where a guy had bought an ex RAAF Winjeel, (I think that was the type) located in Albury, through ebay, from a doctor who didn't believe that $150,000 was enough. Apparently about 250K was what would have been a good price, so he refused to hand it over. The buyer got a court order to seize it, and it was stored, at the former owner's expense till it went to court, and the buyer won. The court held that an ebay contract was a binding contract.
Dec 22, 2007, 12:37 AM
Magicsmoke maker
Inflexo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeble
yeah 'spose...you're a glass half full type person eh pldaniels!
Depends if the glass is being observed or not ... quantum glass !

More a case of, I've had so many 'amusing' things happen both as a customer and as a reseller/store that short of going insane, the only thing you can do is... laugh.
Dec 22, 2007, 01:32 AM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Aviator
Extreme RC, I bet you have an online shop, maybe even an ebay shop??
You jump on me and made sarcastic accusations purely because the obvious was stated? Most know ExtremeRC is an online business, but no I do not run an "ebay" shop

I stated a simple fact about the postage rules and the fact the seller has clearly stated the costs, your mate chose to bid knowing full well the cost of the shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Aviator
I am well aware of the ebay rules, as is my friend. But it is a scam, without doubt. I just phoned my mate and out of interest he cubed the box and it could have been sent via Aust Post for $22. He's not bitching about the postage incidentally, just makes the point that the profit on postage must be taken into account as profit on the deal.
How is it a scam? A scam would be where you were charged more than quoted for the shipping, in this case you entered into the contract knowing full well the costs involved. Niether can you argue that handling costs are "profit on the deal" so to speak, as these costs are factored into the vendors time and packing costs.

I believe these are some of the terms of the seller you are speaking of, cut and pasted straight out of Ebay:

*This item comes with a 7 day warranty against manufacturer defects from date of invoice.
*If item is faulty on arrival, we will replace it free of charge.
*If the item gets out of control and damage after play, we will NOT be responsible. There will NOT be any refunds or replacement for such damages.
*There might be extra charges for repairs depending on the product parts and damaged conditions .
*Buyer is responsible for return shipping in original package, seller will replace and ship back free of charge.
*Returned items which are non-defective are subject to a 20% restocking fee.


Seller clearly states he will sort out faulty items, how did your mate approach this? Obviously the seller is obligated to sort out the damaged component.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Aviator
Cases against individuals do succeed. Quite recently there was one where a guy had bought an ex RAAF Winjeel, (I think that was the type) located in Albury, through ebay, from a doctor who didn't believe that $150,000 was enough. Apparently about 250K was what would have been a good price, so he refused to hand it over. The buyer got a court order to seize it, and it was stored, at the former owner's expense till it went to court, and the buyer won. The court held that an ebay contract was a binding contract.
I do not see how the case of someone refusing to sell a quarter million dollar item because the auction was below their expectations is in the same category...

This all happened within the last week, and all the statements you have made about what the seller has said are nothing more than heresay right now.

Oh and in response to your reply below I read just fine, you made mention of the postage costs and that they need to be factored into the profit and that they are a scam, saying later its obvious you are talking about an ebay scam is well, obvious?? NOT
Last edited by Extreme_RC; Dec 22, 2007 at 03:37 AM.
Dec 22, 2007, 01:52 AM
Registered User
Extreme RC, you are a thin skinned one!! I knew you ran an online shop and it was nothing more than a poke. Settle down.

You are still missing what I said though; you perhaps should take a course in comprehension. He is not beefing about the postage, just saying that any excess over and above the actual should be seen as profit on the item. No more, no less. Re the winjeel sale, I never contended that it was in the same class, whatever that means. In was in the context that court action can be taken over ebay sales. In this case the vendor hasn't delivered as required under consumer laws.

Re the postage being a scam, that was intended to indicate a scam against ebay, and I thought that would have been obvious. I even used the example of the HK shop selling for $2 and charging $25 postage. I believe ebay are onto that, as in the buyer feedback, which is not seen by the vendor, buyers give a score on whether postage is reasonable.

My good friend isn't prepared to enter into a public slanging match here on these forums because he is a solicitor, but I feel obliged to do so, at least warning others to be careful. From his experience, if the vendor deems he hasn't made enough profit, and there is a problem, then you're on your own.

I can probably get hold of a copy of the emails and cut and paste here if you want, but you'll still say it's hearsay. Being a solicitor, he chooses his words very carefully, and without having seen the emails, I could say, quite unequivocally, that any approaches would have been cordial.

Let me see what I can do re emails.
Last edited by Retired Aviator; Dec 22, 2007 at 04:01 AM.
Dec 22, 2007, 02:13 AM
The Revegetator
Chris F's Avatar
Isn't this a warranty problem rather than a postage cost problem? I'm no lawer, but your friend agreed to pay the advertised postage by paying for it didn't he? As Extreme RC has stated extra cost can be added to the postage for packaging and time spent.
Last edited by Chris F; Dec 22, 2007 at 06:35 PM.