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Dec 04, 2007, 05:18 PM
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leadfeather's Avatar
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Micro Autogyro


Check out this guys micro autogyros. Pager motors. Rudder and throttle. ROG take offs. He has several videos and a couple of different models.

http://www.youtube.com/user/036036
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Dec 04, 2007, 05:44 PM
Registered User
PeterO_UK's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfeather
Check out this guys micro autogyros. Pager motors. Rudder and throttle. ROG take offs. He has several videos and a couple of different models.

http://www.youtube.com/user/036036
Most excellent !!
PeterO
Dec 05, 2007, 01:45 AM
Registered User
JochenK's Avatar
Unbelievable.

Jochen
Dec 05, 2007, 08:29 AM
Registered User
Neat ... Thanks for the link.

Love the flying field!
Dec 05, 2007, 08:39 AM
Winging it >
leadfeather's Avatar
These are cute little autogyros and quite an accomplishment from an engineering point of view.

The one that impressed me the most was the one with no horizontal tail... pure autogyro.
Dec 06, 2007, 11:57 AM
AND FOR MY NEXT TRICK....!
jodini's Avatar
I like the end where he smacks into Dad holding the camera!

I wonder if that area is AMA approved! You got to be good to fly there!
Dec 06, 2007, 07:29 PM
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StephanB's Avatar
Fantastic.
Hmm, 2-blader with direct control. Do i remember wrong or has this discussed here controverse in the past?
I think, he uses PalmZ-technology or electronics from a similar rtf in his micros. Many failed in making a micro-autogyro with AA-electronics (silverlit x-twin in my part of the world). These ones at youtube are excellent. Anyone speaking japanese (i guess) here?
Stephan
Dec 06, 2007, 08:49 PM
I'm not as bad as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanB
Fantastic.
Hmm, 2-blader with direct control. Do i remember wrong or has this discussed here controverse in the past?
look closely, it's rudder and motor, not DC.

And the "controversy" is the difficulty of a two bladed, teetering undamped rotor in a small size. Emilio has done a teetering rotor in a bigger size, with tip weights. Jochen has done two blades, but I believe they are offset flapping hinge, not teetering. But perhaps Jochen can correct me.
Last edited by mnowell129; Dec 06, 2007 at 08:55 PM.
Dec 07, 2007, 04:29 AM
Registered User
JochenK's Avatar
Mickey,

the Micromum v5 had a real teetering head, but was way too fast to be any fun. I'm still working on a tamed down version of this one, using the longer blades from the two-bladed v8. The new version flies alright as long as it's flying, but so far all my flights have ended with the rotor loosing speed and the gyro flipping over. I'll take work on that one up again next spring.

I've had a close look at the stills in the video and I think it's a rigid head that's being used - with a low weight like that even Depron blades should be rigid. What surprises me most is that these gyros seem to have about the same fuselage area before and aft of the 'pivot hinge', and how small the active rudder surface is.

Those small rotors must have a huge drag when compared to our bigger gyros. Is that drag being used as a stabilizing factor? And with the small mass of the gyro, is it possible that the motor/rudder combination is acting as a sort of vector thust steering?

Jochen
Dec 07, 2007, 06:07 AM
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StephanB's Avatar
Friends,
you're right, please excuse me giving this a wrong direction re direct control.
Maybe i can compensate: Yesterday evening i sent a pm to Mr. Sekiai, who contributed here in the past, asking for a possible contact with "036036".

Check his answer including link:

He visits frequently to my bulletin board.

Automatic translation of his reports
Please wait for a while after clicking....
http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/en...p=JAEN&wb_dis=2

http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/eng...%3D%2582%25A8%

These may be helpful to you.
Thank you very much.

Y_Sekiai.


I have no time to check the contents now, but i think, there will be more details.

Stephan

Edit: i tried to check, whether the a.m. links are valid, but they seem not working. This is strange, because the link in Mr. Sekiais PM works and i only copied this link here. Can anyone confirm, whether link works or not? Thanks.

http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/eng...=JAEN&wb_dis=2
Last edited by StephanB; Dec 07, 2007 at 07:50 AM.
Dec 07, 2007, 06:32 AM
Registered User
JochenK's Avatar
Stephan,

the links you posted aren't full pathnames. Maybe you can get the full pathname if you right-click on the original link and the on 'properties'.

Jochen
Dec 07, 2007, 06:35 AM
Restricted User
StephanB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
Stephan,

the links you posted aren't full pathnames. Maybe you can get the full pathname if you right-click on the original link and the on 'properties'.

Jochen
Jochen, that's exactly, what i tried with the second link. Doesnt work either.
I forward the PM to you, maybe you can check, what's wrong. I'amshort in time...
Stephan
Dec 07, 2007, 06:49 AM
I'm not as bad as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
the Micromum v5 had a real teetering head, but was way too fast to be any fun.... but so far all my flights have ended with the rotor loosing speed and the gyro flipping over.
This is/was my point to Stephan, that the small teetering rotor is difficult, and even if it is possible, it may not be totally practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
I've had a close look at the stills in the video and I think it's a rigid head that's being used
Jochen
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
Those small rotors must have a huge drag when compared to our bigger gyros. Is that drag being used as a stabilizing factor? And with the small mass of the gyro, is it possible that the motor/rudder combination is acting as a sort of vector thust steering?
I don't think drag is a stabilizing factor. I've never seen drag used in a stability equation. The drag provides a nose up pitching, but that in itself isn't stabilizing.
I agree that is steers with a kind of vector thrust, the little rudder is basically turning the balanced "fuse" and pointing the motor a different direction.
I think the most important design aspect is the fuse area is large compared to the disk area (almost 1:1) and this provides the critical roll damping needed to make it flyable. As I've written about before you have to get the roll damping somewhere, either tall mast or vertical surface and this design effectively has both.
I suspect the same design with a much smaller fuse or just a wire loop for a fuse would be very challenging to fly. As it is it's being flown by a likely video game playing fast reflex 2nd grader.....
Latest blog entry: AIrcraft I've built.
Dec 07, 2007, 07:52 AM
Restricted User
StephanB's Avatar

broken link


I edited my above post again. The third link at the bottom of the post works for me now.

Here it is again:
http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/eng...=JAEN&wb_dis=2

Stephan
Dec 07, 2007, 09:35 AM
Registered User
JochenK's Avatar
Stephan,

the link worked for me too.


Mickey,

your'e right. As far as I can understand the translation, the designer of this gyro attributes its stability to the low c.g. and the big fuse area. He also thinks that a much larger version wouldn't fly.

Jochen


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