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This thread is privately moderated by dcg9381, who may elect to delete unwanted replies. |
Trader Rating: 9
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FAQ
What to do when ripped off
I have some level of experience helping people with internet fraud and thought I'd post an FAQ of what to do when ripped off.
First, it's best to prevent being ripped off: 1) It's best to purchase using a credit card. Note, I said credit, not debit, as the rules can be different. Visa, Mastercard, and American Express all allow chargebacks to 3rd party payment processors. The bottom line is that if you get ripped off, you can charge the whole transaction back within 90 days. Note - if you chargeback paypal, and paypal can't recover, paypal holds you accountable for the difference. This means your paypal account is done and they may send you nasty grams until you pay, but they really have no legitimate legal recourse in regard to recovery. 2) Paypal is a decent option for both buyers and sellers. For sellers, it's super important to keep proof of shipping. Without it, the buyer can get the item and get his/her money back. If you're a buyer and you don't get your items, it's super important to dispute your the transaction early. When you dispute a transaction, it puts those funds on "hold" - the seller can't withdraw them until the dispute is resolved. If you want too long, the seller has withdrawn funds - paypal can't recover funds where there are none. If you wait more than 60 days, you can't dispute at all. Note, a paypal seller can send you a box of rocks and all they need to provide paypal is proof of shipping. The other footnote is to never, never, never release a dispute until it is 100% resolved.. You can't redispute - regardless. 3) A new way to take payment - no fees currently - http://checkout.google.com has started up. It protects sellers from chargebacks if they have proper proof. Unknown what the seller protections really are, but I think it's likely they'll be better than paypal. If you are ripped off: Using ebay: Report the ripoff to ebay, use the "help" link and contact ebay. This is important as feedback doesn't impact account status as much as reporting scams does. Using paypal: See above, dispute the transaction as early as possible. If this doesn't work, charge back (because you paid via Visa/MC). Scammed via the mail: If you sent money via USPS (in the mail) - in any form, and received nothing, it's a federal felony. Start by reporting the fraud in three places, printing out copies of your submissions: 1) USPS fraud complaint: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/f...Complaint.aspx 2) IFCC (FBI, etc): http://www.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp 3) File a local, yes local, police report.. Keep a copy. Walk in, have someone take your report. In some small towns they may not want to do the paperwork, it's important to do this anyway. In all likelyhood, these reports won't go very far on their own. The FBI and USPS investigate frauds that take hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of dollars. What you're after is legal documentation of your complaint. You kept a hard copy / electronic copy of the complaint, remember? I wasn't able to recover money, NOW WHAT? First, get the name address and phone number of anyone else ripped off. Now you leverage the legal system. If you sent payment via USPS to a real address, you have a lot of information. Figure out what county you sent money to. The vast majority of counties have property tax records that are available online. From there, you figure out who owns the home. This is a great resrouce for contacting mommy and daddy, who are going to be real concerned when you send them copies of your IFCC, USPS, and local criminal complaints. The only way to make these things go away is to pay back the funds. In the event that mommy and daddy don't own the house, you can inform the owner that illegal operations are being done on the property - again, good leverage. Most landlords don't want the liability. Last, if the scammer actually owns the house, this is great. In this case, you lookup the number of the local PD and county sherriff. Call on the phone. Ask to speak to - this is important - the "white collar" crimes department, typically a detective or set of detectives. Tell your story. Don't demand action, you want to be "concerned" that other people are being scammed. Ask for a fax number. Fax over your complaints. These complaints are things that local PD CAN take action on. Cold calling w/o complaints or trying to file a complaint remotely usually won't get you very far. It's amazing the kind of results a local PD or detective can get.. And trust me, typically they are interested -especially if you document and provide contact info on others that have been ripped off. Again, the best way out of this mess is to PAY and pay quickly.... |
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Last edited by dcg9381; Nov 29, 2007 at 12:24 AM.
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Excellent write up! This should be made a sticky eventually.
Doubletap |
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Quote:
I reported this post..... There is one selection to "Stick/Unstick" that post. I asked the mods to make it a "Sticky." |
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Good stuff here. I vote for sticky as well!
Joe |
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Excellent Information!
I always use a visa/mastercard for all transactions via the internet. I'll take no chances. |
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Trader Rating: 210
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Some good advice, but a few loose ends.
The FBI won't do squat unless the amount is ~$50,000. That's what an FBI agent told the police when I sat in on a conference call. My deal was only ~$2500, the FBI told me that they wouldn't touch it. Local police report, good info. But don't just sit on it. When you have the police report from your jurisdiction, have THEM send it to the authorities in the scammer's jurisdiction, along with all corrsespondence, pics, emails, anything. Contact the scammer's authorities AFTER your local authorities have sent the info. The scammer's authorities won't do anything if you contact them direct, not without a complaint from YOUR local authorities. After they get the complaint, they can act on it, and will correspond with you. I got to be on first name basis with the shift supervisor of the sheriff's office, his team got everything I was owed sent to me (in 3 days, after 3 months of BS), and I sent a letter to the department praising them. I got a reply stating that my letter went into the permanent file of every officer involved. DO it right, griping on the internet won't get you anywhere. |
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Trader Rating: 2
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I think the most important advice of what to do when you get scammed, is DO SOMETHING! Once you determine that you've come out with the short end of the stick, don't keep trying to "work it out" with the scammer. Report them to the authorities, your credit card company, post a scammer's alert on the forum, etc.. Take action, and follow up on it. Put the pressure on the scammer, and keep it there.
Remember, when you've been scammed that it's not your fault. If you've dealt in good faith, you have every right to expect what you've bought, or traded for. |
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Trader Rating: 3
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I concur with 99.9%
Of that except my AMEX backcharged PP for 600..and that's no easy feat. VISA has been sorta "whimpsy" IMO. That's why I never use it (unless they don't take AMEX).
MasterCard? They still have those..Dang..I though those went out with Diners Club Bottom line weapon....."AMEX BLACK" Thanks for the informative post..hope "fly" chimes in..he's the CC expert Greg |
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Trader Rating: 9
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Thread OP
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Actually, I stand corrected.. AMEX now allows paypal chargebacks, this was not always the case and has only been changed due to consumer litigation over millions of dollars in charges. I'm going to edit the post. References:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...sep19a_03.html http://www.americanexpress.com.bh/me...k_policies.jsp |
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Trader Rating: 36
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On one of your sidenotes you mention "Seller may send a box of rocks and all they need is proof of shipment". Although this is true their paypal feedback won't look rosey afterwards.
I had a run in with someone who claimed they never got my package and did a dispute and got back a partial amount of what they paid. So I was out the item and some extra $$$. The funny thing is that I had only one negative on my feedback and that was due to a slow shipping seller. All my other 25+ transactions were A+ happy as clams deals. This guy only had 7 feedbacks and 2 were bad around the same time as me and then he took his feedback private. Still paypal sided with him. I'll tell ya if I ever get up to Canada I'm sure his day won't be pleasant. |
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Trader Rating: 9
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Thread OP
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Quote:
I actually don't know how many decided disputes it takes before paypal takes action and closes an account, but I do know I've seen losses across multiple transactions in the range of thousands of dollars. This is why it's important to dispute often and dispute early. Paypal account status isn't impacted by openting a dispute - it just locks the funds. Account status is impacted by disputes decided in a buyers favor. If you shipped an item and have proof of delivery you should never have any issue with a did-not-receive dispute. Paypal's TOS dictate that you have to keep proof of delivery in the event of a dispute. If you don't, you're technically "self insuring" and are subject to someone doing what they did to you - claiming they didn't receive it. Now you DO have to provide paypal with all the information that they request if you want the dispute to be decided in your favor. If you don't have the shipping information, you're going to lose the dispute. |
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Trader Rating: 31
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abcdefg
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Last edited by krosypal; Jan 09, 2008 at 01:36 PM.
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Trader Rating: 210
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It's responses like yours that make no sense.
Buy a $400 plane ticket and a baseball bat... get charged with assault with a deadly weapon, trespassing, who knows what else. I'll guarantee you that just the bail on those charges will dwarf the $2500, plus the fine/probation fees/time for missed work while sitting in a jail 3 states away. Sounds like a great plan. Or, work inside the system. It cost me nothing to file charges and I ended up getting what I paid for. I'd say that beats the heck out of going to jail and having to pay an additional god knows how much in fines/lawsuits. But hey, if you want to go around engaging in criminal activities, be my guest. |
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Trader Rating: 43
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If you report a $2,500 theft to the FBI, they may not do a thing. If 20 persons can report a similar theft, now it is at $50,000. I would say, report it anyway.
Attacking by harassment will get YOU in trouble. Attacking with LE will get the THIEF in trouble... Reported for "Violence?" Where? |
Last edited by wrightme; May 10, 2008 at 11:28 PM.
Reason: Reported for "Violence?"
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Trader Rating: 78
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Quote:
Lord only knows how many people have read it in the past 5 months and didn't find it reportable, till one person does who calls it "offensive." This is why I have advocated for a rule change requiring two reports for it to be considered by RCG..... |
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Last edited by Cessna 182; May 12, 2008 at 12:01 PM.
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