Thread Tools
Feb 18, 2008, 04:10 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdragan
Here is another way to mount the "Gold 4 hole version of the 09 motor", using the original Draganflyer motor mount and a plastic washer.

John - Where did you get this version of the motor? I couldn't find it on hobbycity. Nice job on the mount. -Keith
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Feb 18, 2008, 05:52 AM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoglite
John - Where did you get this version of the motor? I couldn't find it on hobbycity. Nice job on the mount. -Keith
The supplier is listed under "Parts Suppliers" - Motors in the index at the bottom of the first post in this thread.

Mike
Feb 18, 2008, 06:57 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
@Keith and John,
Did you set the exponential for channels 1, 2 1nd 4 to -50%? That would decrease sensitivity and give you more control. Also, see if you can change your channel 6 EPA to about 60%. Check your flap switch range setting in your menu too. The Optic 6 default is 30%, so change it to 100%. Doing these things will give you wider and less touchy range on the TI sensitivity adjustment. Presuming you have computer type TX's of course.
Keith, was there any significant wind on that fateful day? Did it oscillate before it flipped on you? What throttle setting did you have at that time? I have found that if the wind starts any kind of oscillation, the worst thing you can do is chop the power. Increasing power, but certainly never going below half-stick in that case, is better in order to give the processor/gyros more power to restabilize. FWIW... Another thing related to that is that if you are near the last few minutes of usable battery, then go very easy on the throttles and maneuvers. Again, this is because the processors, motors/gyros need reserve to maintain stability. When it starts its self power-down, it is too late to do much but find a safe place to land. Try not to use the auto power-down as your low battery indicator. It is better to go by your timer minutes and keep a reserve of battery power. Be warned that "goosing" the power when the battery is near the end of its power, or even flying in 14 knot winds, will cause it to go into the low battery power down mode a little earlier than you might expect, and cut a couple of flyable minutes off of your flight. It is better to be more conservative on flight time when hanging a camera too...
BTW, the terrain you are flying in looks like a contributing factor in the DF carnage too...where are you? I didn't know these Quads would work on the moon...
Cheers,
Jim
Last edited by jesolins; Mar 10, 2008 at 06:44 AM.
Feb 18, 2008, 08:24 AM
Registered User

60% EPA on channel 6


Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
@Keith and John,
Did you set the Exponential for channels 1, 2 1nd 4 to -50%? That would decrease sensitivity and give you more control. Also, see if you can change your channel 6 EPA to about 60%. That will give you more range on the TI sensitivity adjustment. Presuming you have computer type TX's of course.
Keith, was there any significant wind on that fateful day? Did it oscillate before it flipped on you? What throttle setting did you have at that time? I have found that if the wind starts any kind of oscillation, the worst thing you can do is chop the power. Increasing power, but certainly never going below half-stick in that case, is better in order to give the processor/gyros more power to restabilize. FWIW... Another thing related to that is that if you are near the last few minutes of usable battery, then go very easy on the throttles and maneuvers. Again, this is because the processors, motors/gyros need reserve to maintain stability. When it starts its self power-down, it is too late to do much but find a safe place to land. Try not to use the auto power-down as your low battery indicater. It is better to go by your timer minutes and keep a reserve of battery power. Be warned that "goosing" the power when the battery is near the end of its power will cause it to go into the low battery power down mode and cut a couple of flyable minutes off of your flight.
Cheers,
Jim
Hi, Jim
Just wondered why you suggest putting the EPA on 6 to 60% and why it gives more TI range.
I set mine at 100% except for channel 4 which was set for 125% (max on my Tx) as suggested by Old mab Mike
Cheers Ted
Feb 18, 2008, 08:38 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
Ted,
On my Optic 6, it allows me to have a finer TI sensitivity adjustment with the correspondingly wider range of movement of my channel 6 control slider (flap control). It takes a 50% movement at that 60% EPA setting instead of the touchy 10-20% range of good performance without using the EPA.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
Hi, Jim
Just wondered why you suggest putting the EPA on 6 to 60% and why it gives more TI range.
I set mine at 100% except for channel 4 which was set for 125% (max on my Tx) as suggested by Old mab Mike
Cheers Ted
Feb 18, 2008, 10:02 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
Ted,
On my Optic 6, it allows me to have a finer TI sensitivity adjustment with the correspondingly wider range of movement of my channel 6 control slider (flap control). It takes a 50% movement at that 60% EPA setting instead of the touchy 10-20% range of good performance without using the EPA.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Jim
Yes, Jim
I have the Optic 6 Tx and have been flying with the TI set at 50% as Mike recommended. When I have this set as you suggest are you actually saying that 50% on the flap control will actually be 50%x60%=30% and correspondingly throughout the range (or am I having one of "my senior moments") ?
Cheers Ted
Feb 18, 2008, 10:42 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
Ted,
You got it. As you might have noticed, without the EPA limit, the useful range on the slider for adjusting TI assist for smooth hover was pretty much centered at the 50% setting, plus or minus about 5% or a just few clicks. i.e.: a few clicks up from center and there was too much assist and sometimes oscilation, a few clicks down from center and there was practically no TI assist for self leveling. Now I can change the slider in 10% increments throughout its entire range and see the behavior TI flight behavior change more slowly allowing for a finer tune. I can now dial in just the right amount of TI assist depnding on the wind conditions and the payload weight for a smooth hover.
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
Yes, Jim
I have the Optic 6 Tx and have been flying with the TI set at 50% as Mike recommended. When I have this set as you suggest are you actually saying that 50% on the flap control will actually be 50%x60%=30% and correspondingly throughout the range (or am I having one of "my senior moments") ?
Cheers Ted
Feb 18, 2008, 11:09 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
Ted,
You got it. As you might have noticed, without the EPA limit, the useful range on the slider for adjusting TI assist for smooth hover was pretty much centered at the 50% setting, plus or minus about 5% or a just few clicks. i.e.: a few clicks up from center and there was too much assist and sometimes oscilation, a few clicks down from center and there was practically no TI assist for self leveling. Now I can change the slider in 10% increments throughout its entire range and see the behavior TI flight behavior change more slowly allowing for a finer tune. I can now dial in just the right amount of TI assist depnding on the wind conditions and the payload weight for a smooth hover.
Cheers,
Jim
Thanks for the explanation, Jim
In actual fact I have really only had the one afternoon when I was able to go out (weather) and it was very calm so I have not had chance to fiddle about with the TI controls but I will have a go a t the earliest opportunity. - You are a very clever Texan - Thanks again Cheers Ted
Feb 18, 2008, 12:47 PM
Registered User
Quote:
As you might have noticed, without the EPA limit, the useful range on the slider for adjusting TI assist for smooth hover was pretty much centered at the 50% setting, plus or minus about 5% or a just few clicks. i.e.: a few clicks up from center and there was too much assist and sometimes oscilation, a few clicks down from center and there was practically no TI assist for self leveling.
Jim,

When you talk about having Ti "centered" at 50%, are you talking about having the Ti dial or slider set at the 12 o'clock position? When I had my Ti accident, I had my channel 6 EPA set at 100% and was only able to set the Ti gain to around the 7 or 8 o'clock before the Draganflyer would become unstable do to excess Ti gain. If the off dial position for Ti is all the way to the left or 6 o'clock, do you think I would be able to regain a larger or more normal Ti range, possibly as high as the 11 or 12 o'clock position if I lower my EPA to 60% on channel 6?

Thanks,

John
Last edited by Blackdragan; Feb 18, 2008 at 12:53 PM.
Feb 18, 2008, 04:30 PM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdragan
Jim,

When you talk about having Ti "centered" at 50%, are you talking about having the Ti dial or slider set at the 12 o'clock position? When I had my Ti accident, I had my channel 6 EPA set at 100% and was only able to set the Ti gain to around the 7 or 8 o'clock before the Draganflyer would become unstable do to excess Ti gain. If the off dial position for Ti is all the way to the left or 6 o'clock, do you think I would be able to regain a larger or more normal Ti range, possibly as high as the 11 or 12 o'clock position if I lower my EPA to 60% on channel 6?

Thanks,

John
Just want to put a reminder in here that the large frame TI setting probably needs to be a little higher than the small frame setting. I have a feeling that some of the comments are getting mixed between the two different systems.

As a summary, my experience:

Small frame setting: between 9 and 10:30 oclock
Large frame setting: between 10:30 and 12:00 oclock

(Those settings are with the normal 100% default TX setting for channel 6)

Mike
Last edited by Old Man Mike; Feb 18, 2008 at 04:38 PM.
Feb 19, 2008, 01:05 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
John,
My only experience with the positive effect of changing the EPA for channel 6 and the smoother/less touchy control of TI is with my Optic 6 TX. Your results and set up may vary with other TX's. Simply try it with different EPA settings on channel 6 and note the results. Instead of a usable TI control knob range of 10-12 or whatever, you might get a wider or even range of "usable" control on your knob. One thing to note is that EPA, at least on the Optic 6, sets its range limit where the slider is. I found my best results were pulling the slider full back (TI low sensitivity) and then setting 60% EPA. There is probably a variation on that with other branded TX's. I experimented with this because I found on my Optic 6, that at the default 100% EPA setting only a few clicks from the TI "sweet spot" would allow for way to much TI input, and that can cause wild oscillations even with a little bit of wind. Play with it and see how you like it. Check your TX's flap range setting too. On the Optic 6 the default is 30%. Change it to 100%.
What TX are you using? I do think this will help you as it seems your TX is maxing TI input at a pretty low knob setting.
Cheers,
Jim
[Blackdragan]Jim,

When you talk about having Ti "centered" at 50%, are you talking about having the Ti dial or slider set at the 12 o'clock position? When I had my Ti accident, I had my channel 6 EPA set at 100% and was only able to set the Ti gain to around the 7 or 8 o'clock before the Draganflyer would become unstable do to excess Ti gain. If the off dial position for Ti is all the way to the left or 6 o'clock, do you think I would be able to regain a larger or more normal Ti range, possibly as high as the 11 or 12 o'clock position if I lower my EPA to 60% on channel 6?

Thanks,

John[/QUOTE]
Last edited by jesolins; Mar 10, 2008 at 06:47 AM.
Feb 19, 2008, 10:23 PM
Registered User
What about with the radio from RCtoys, the Futaba T6EXP? It comes programmed for the Dragandlyer, but doesn't have a flaps slider or knob. Is there a way to adjust sensitivity with that?
Feb 19, 2008, 10:58 PM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targ8ter
What about with the radio from RCtoys, the Futaba T6EXP? It comes programmed for the Dragandlyer, but doesn't have a flaps slider or knob. Is there a way to adjust sensitivity with that?
Maybe you can change it in the programming section. The Futaba 6EXAP looks the same except for an added knob in the top upper right corner which controls channel 6.

Mike
Last edited by Old Man Mike; Feb 20, 2008 at 01:31 PM.
Feb 19, 2008, 11:25 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
@Keith and John,
...Keith, was there any significant wind on that fateful day? Did it oscillate before it flipped on you? What throttle setting did you have at that time? I have found that if the wind starts any kind of oscillation, the worst thing you can do is chop the power.
Jim - There was a mild breeze but nothing my 3D foamy couldn't fly in. However, there could have been a wind shear that I was unaware of. I believe it went into a very short osciallation prior to flipping but like I said, it all happened so quickly... I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't have flipped without Ti enabled however. I'm an old DF IV flyer and this has never happened (but then we never had this kind of power either). I probably let it get below half stick when I saw things going nutty.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
BTW, the terrain you are flying in looks like a contributing factor in the DF carnage too...where are you? I didn't know these Quads would work on the moon...
Cheers,
Jim

I'm stuck out in the desert in Southern CA. It might as well be the moon... just a bit more atmosphere

Well, Mike does the flat rate repair for $75 with these brushless boards so I've sent it in and requested the large diameter gains. It looks like I'll be joining the kquad club here shortly -Keith
Feb 20, 2008, 04:11 AM
Registered User

More Confusion


Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
John,
My only experience with the positive effect of changing the EPA for channel 6 and the smoother/less touchy control of TI is with my Optic 6 TX. Your results and set up may vary with other TX's. Simply try it with different EPA settings on channel 6 and note the results. Instead of a usable TI control knob range of 10-12 or whatever, you might get a wider or even range of "usable" control on your knob. One thing to note is that EPA, at least on the Optic 6, sets its range limit where the slider is. I found my best results were pulling the slider full back (TI low sensitivity) and then setting 60% EPA. There is probably a variation on that with other branded TX's. I experimented with this because I found on my Optic 6, that at the default 100% EPA setting only a few clicks from the TI "sweet spot" would allow for way to much TI input, and that can cause wild oscillations even with a little bit of wind. Play with it and see how you like it.
What TX are you using? I do think this will help you as it seems your TX is maxing TI input at a pretty low knob setting.
Cheers,
Jim
[Blackdragan]Jim,

When you talk about having Ti "centered" at 50%, are you talking about having the Ti dial or slider set at the 12 o'clock position? When I had my Ti accident, I had my channel 6 EPA set at 100% and was only able to set the Ti gain to around the 7 or 8 o'clock before the Draganflyer would become unstable do to excess Ti gain. If the off dial position for Ti is all the way to the left or 6 o'clock, do you think I would be able to regain a larger or more normal Ti range, possibly as high as the 11 or 12 o'clock position if I lower my EPA to 60% on channel 6?

Thanks,

John
[/QUOTE]


JIM - I think this is for you
After your last correspondence I thought I was quite happy but I have been trying to find a "slider" on my Optic 6 and cannot find one?
This is the front of my Tx and the EPA is set via the data input buttons not by a slider.
Help please

Thanks Ted


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Sport Delta own design flying4fun Foamies (Kits) 7 Jun 08, 2004 12:23 AM
New Park Flyer Wing Design John Boren Parkflyers 0 Jul 29, 2003 10:44 PM
New Coroplast Zagi Tray Design mopar_man Foamies (Kits) 10 Sep 12, 2001 08:42 PM