A New 1000mm Quad Copter Design - Page 11 - RC Groups
Thread Tools
Dec 07, 2007, 02:30 PM
Went to mow a meadow
frank48's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
I found that the quad was unflyable as when I moved the throttle up to where the machine was just rising off the ground and gave it one crack more it just flipped over.
Hi Ted

Just a thought, could the DVD box cover be cofusing the IR sensors? Any thoughts?

Cheers Frank
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Dec 07, 2007, 02:38 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
Hi,
Did you have TI off for flying in the garage? (Hold throttle stick down and to the left then press the arm button). That alone would make it squirrly as TI must be used only outside. Also, I'm not too sure the CD storage cover's opacity is clear enough for the sensors to even allow TI to work outside, so be careful with that.
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
Hi, Mikro Old Man Mike and the rest of the guys.

I finally got my "machine" built and tried it out in the garage as the UK is in the throes of what can only be described as cold monsoon weather.
I am linking this to Mikro's post as I also had problems with orientation (I think finally sorted) but my problem is the only Tx I have available is a 4 channel bog standard at present until my son gets back from USA and I found that the quad was unflyable as when I moved the throttle up to where the machine was just rising off the ground and gave it one crack more it just flipped over.
I assume that this will be corrected when I adjust the finer controls in the computer radio I am expecting.
My contribution is a modification of Mike's design only using carbon fibre plates which I bought originally to increase the size of the XUFO (which never came about!).
The two plates trap the carbon fibre tubes between them without weakening them by drilling. Another plate is held above and the gap between houses the lipo.
The motors are screwed to u-form aluminium which is coated inside with silicone rubber sealant (for friction and CF protection). The assembly is held onto the CF tube by nylon strapping.The CF tube is further protected by shrink tubing.
Protection for the mainboard is aluminium inside DVD box as shown.
It was difficult to obtain the suggested motors and ESC's at a reasonable price so I substituted Emax 2822 832 KV capable of up to 16 amps and Emax 25 Amp ECS's total cost (reasonable for UK!) 64 ($120) for the 4.

Total weight without battery is 720gms (26 oz)
Dec 07, 2007, 02:44 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
Hi,
Did you have TI off for flying in the garage? (Hold throttle stick down and to the left then press the arm button). That alone would make it squirrly as TI must be used only outside. Also, I'm not too sure the CD storage cover's opacity is clear enough for the sensors to even allow TI to work outside, so be careful with that.
Cheers,
Jim
Yes I had to switch off the TI because I only have (at present) a 4 channel Tx.
Ted (and for the purposes of my test I did not even have the storage cover in place.
Dec 07, 2007, 02:54 PM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins
Hi,
Did you have TI off for flying in the garage? (Hold throttle stick down and to the left then press the arm button). That alone would make it squirrly as TI must be used only outside. Also, I'm not too sure the CD storage cover's opacity is clear enough for the sensors to even allow TI to work outside, so be careful with that.
Cheers,
Jim
Ted,

Jim is exactly right. If you are flying with a four channel radio, you do not know if the TI is on or off since that is controlled on channel 5. You can force TI to be off doing the approach that Jim described. (I'm impressed that Jim read the original Draganflyer manuals carefully enough to get that).

Frank and Jim also make a good point about the the CD cover potentially blocking the IR sensors. You may want to cut out holes in the cover to allow a clear view for the sensors.

Finally, I am still amazed that people keep substituting more expensive motors and ESCs without ever trying the recommended ones. While different motors & ESCs may work, it just introduces unknown variables when you are trying something new. Is there a problem ordering parts from Hong Kong (Hobbycity.com)? I must be missing something.

(I do like your creative work with the frame.)

Mike
Dec 07, 2007, 03:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike
Ted,

Jim is exactly right. If you are flying with a four channel radio, you do not know if the TI is on or off since that is controlled on channel 5. You can force TI to be off doing the approach that Jim described. (I'm impressed that Jim read the original Draganflyer manuals carefully enough to get that).

Frank and Jim also make a good point about the the CD cover potentially blocking the IR sensors. You may want to cut out holes in the cover to allow a clear view for the sensors.

Finally, I am still amazed that people keep substituting more expensive motors and ESCs without ever trying the recommended ones. While different motors & ESCs may work, it just introduces unknown variables when you are trying something new. Is there a problem ordering parts from Hong Kong (Hobbycity.com)? I must be missing something.

(I do like your creative work with the frame.)

Mike
Hi, Mike
Thanks for the feedback. According to Mike Dammar " if you don't have a 6 channel radio then hold rudder full left when arming (the eyeball led lights will turn off when stick is in correct position to disable self levelling)" - supplied with the board.
I really just wanted to know if my wiring was OK and now I will wait until the 6 channel Tx is available.
The prices I quoted are very good for UK - the guy I get them from is probably the cheapest source. - the problem with ordering direct from HK is the cost and lengthy time of postage. The motors and ESC's are probably the cheapest at present available in UK that will turn the 10x4.5 props. (At least it does show that other motors do work)
Ted
Dec 07, 2007, 04:01 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike
(I'm impressed that Jim read the original Draganflyer manuals carefully enough to get that).
Mike
Dec 08, 2007, 01:09 AM
Quad Crash Test Pilot
Mikro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
I found that the quad was unflyable as when I moved the throttle up to where the machine was just rising off the ground and gave it one crack more it just flipped over.
Congrats for getting everything together! You are very close, don't get discouraged, let's roll up our sleeves and troubleshoot!

At one point when I was troubleshooting my quad, it also started flipping over as you described. Assuming you are absolutely sure which ESC connectors are the front/back/left/right, be sure to connect them exactly as Old Man Mike indicated in his diagram. Then power up your PWB and disarm the TI. Increase your throttle just before the props start spinning. Now carefully pick up your quad, and tilt the front of it in the downwards direction. What should happen is the front prop should start spinning. Same thing should happen for all the other props when you tilt in those directions. Chances are the wrong prop is spinning, which causes the quad to flip over. The reason I encountered this is that I had started swapping the ESC connectors in the effort to fix my transmitter issues.

If that is all OK, the next thing I would look at is the transmitter configuration. Make sure it is in airplane mode (not heli). With the throttle increased just before the props start spinning, try moving your right stick forward (elevator). Your back prop should start spinning. When you move the stick back, the front prop should start spinning. If this is reversed, configure your transmitter to reverse your elevator. Now try moving your right stick to the left (aileron). Your right prop should start spinning. When you move the stick to the right, the left prop should start spinning. If it is reversed, configure the transmitter to reverse the aileron.

Now if you found that when moving your elevator front/back, but your left/right props were spinning, and when you moved your aileron left/right and your front/back props were spinning, then you have the same issue I had. The elevator and aileron channels are switched. I couldn't figure out how to switch those channels on my transmitter (swapping ESC connectors doesn't help), and I didn't want to delve into any fancy mixing of my channels. What I did is rotate my orientation of my quad 90 degrees to the right. Which means what I used to consider my front/back props are now my left/right props. You might want to follow the directions in the second paragraph again to make sure your transmitter channels are not reversed.

If you are experiencing the same transmitter problems I have, maybe there is something special about Futaba transmitters compared to others? Anyone know for sure?

Ted, I hope that helps. If there are more issues, try to provide as much detail as possible and I'll check it out against my quad.
Dec 08, 2007, 03:15 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikro
Congrats for getting everything together! You are very close, don't get discouraged, let's roll up our sleeves and troubleshoot!

At one point when I was troubleshooting my quad, it also started flipping over as you described. Assuming you are absolutely sure which ESC connectors are the front/back/left/right, be sure to connect them exactly as Old Man Mike indicated in his diagram. Then power up your PWB and disarm the TI. Increase your throttle just before the props start spinning. Now carefully pick up your quad, and tilt the front of it in the downwards direction. What should happen is the front prop should start spinning. Same thing should happen for all the other props when you tilt in those directions. Chances are the wrong prop is spinning, which causes the quad to flip over. The reason I encountered this is that I had started swapping the ESC connectors in the effort to fix my transmitter issues.

If that is all OK, the next thing I would look at is the transmitter configuration. Make sure it is in airplane mode (not heli). With the throttle increased just before the props start spinning, try moving your right stick forward (elevator). Your back prop should start spinning. When you move the stick back, the front prop should start spinning. If this is reversed, configure your transmitter to reverse your elevator. Now try moving your right stick to the left (aileron). Your right prop should start spinning. When you move the stick to the right, the left prop should start spinning. If it is reversed, configure the transmitter to reverse the aileron.

Now if you found that when moving your elevator front/back, but your left/right props were spinning, and when you moved your aileron left/right and your front/back props were spinning, then you have the same issue I had. The elevator and aileron channels are switched. I couldn't figure out how to switch those channels on my transmitter (swapping ESC connectors doesn't help), and I didn't want to delve into any fancy mixing of my channels. What I did is rotate my orientation of my quad 90 degrees to the right. Which means what I used to consider my front/back props are now my left/right props. You might want to follow the directions in the second paragraph again to make sure your transmitter channels are not reversed.

If you are experiencing the same transmitter problems I have, maybe there is something special about Futaba transmitters compared to others? Anyone know for sure?

Ted, I hope that helps. If there are more issues, try to provide as much detail as possible and I'll check it out against my quad.
Hi, Mikro
Any advice is helpful because it's a learning curve and we are all learning as we go along.
I actually wondered if my problem was that the throttle was too severe as I do not yet have the ability to set the recommended contols (EPA etc) because I do not yet have the 6 channel computer radio and I am unlikely to get that until the end of December.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Ted
Dec 08, 2007, 05:46 AM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
Hi, Mikro
Any advice is helpful because it's a learning curve and we are all learning as we go along.
I actually wondered if my problem was that the throttle was too severe as I do not yet have the ability to set the recommended contols (EPA etc) because I do not yet have the 6 channel computer radio and I am unlikely to get that until the end of December.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Ted
Ted,

Just a quick recommendation. Hold down the copter and increase throttle to check if all props are pushing air down. One might be turning the wrong direction because it is the wrong prop or a motor is reversed. Either case would certainly cause a flip.

Mike
Dec 08, 2007, 07:59 AM
Registered User
joeling's Avatar
Hi,

Some update on my take of the quad. I have finished the frame, hooked up the electronics. All seemed ok at the moment. I followed Mike's recommendation on the Futaba transmitter settings, jesolins's very good advice on modifying a Hitec receiver to get the composite ppm signal.

I have done some bench tests. The motors spun up when I apply throttle, When I tried the yaw, 2 of the motors opposite each other spun up while the other 2 slowed down. When I tried the elevator, the rear motor sped up while the font slowed down.

I will try to fly the quad tomorrow at a local fun fly & try to test the TI function too. I still have to figure what to do for a landing gear though.

I did encounter 1 problem but probably not related to the PWB. 2 of the cheapo esc did not arm themselves. Instead of trying to troublshoot those, I substituted everything with CC Pheonix 25 that I had lying around (actually ripped them off a failed experiment). Then, all was well.







Regards,
Joe Ling

PS : My thanks to Ted for the usage of the CD holder idea.
Dec 08, 2007, 03:02 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeling
Hi,

Some update on my take of the quad. I have finished the frame, hooked up the electronics. All seemed ok at the moment. I followed Mike's recommendation on the Futaba transmitter settings, jesolins's very good advice on modifying a Hitec receiver to get the composite ppm signal.

I have done some bench tests. The motors spun up when I apply throttle, When I tried the yaw, 2 of the motors opposite each other spun up while the other 2 slowed down. When I tried the elevator, the rear motor sped up while the font slowed down.

I will try to fly the quad tomorrow at a local fun fly & try to test the TI function too. I still have to figure what to do for a landing gear though.

I did encounter 1 problem but probably not related to the PWB. 2 of the cheapo esc did not arm themselves. Instead of trying to troublshoot those, I substituted everything with CC Pheonix 25 that I had lying around (actually ripped them off a failed experiment). Then, all was well.







Regards,
Joe Ling

PS : My thanks to Ted for the usage of the CD holder idea.

Hi, Joe
I presume that somehow you have extracted the PPM signal from the hitec receiver (I can't find reference to this) and also (this is what I particularly wanted to ask) supplied power to that receiver from the Dammar board and fed the signal from the receiver back to the Dammar board. Where do these connections go into the receiver socket?

Thanks Ted
Dec 08, 2007, 04:37 PM
Quad Crash Test Pilot
Mikro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike
Hold down the copter and increase throttle to check if all props are pushing air down. One might be turning the wrong direction because it is the wrong prop or a motor is reversed. Either case would certainly cause a flip.
Good point Mike, the motor direction should also be checked. Transmitter features like expo and trimming help with fine tuning your quad, but there are more severe issues going on if the quad flips when enough throttle is applied to lift it off the ground.

It looks like from Joe's picture of how he connected the Hitec receiver to the PWB, where red is "+", brown is "-" and orange is the PPM signal, I can follow that and connect a Spectrum AR7000 receiver circuit I built from Arthur P's plans. I'll give it a go and see how well it flies with a DX7 transmitter.

Good luck Ted with troubleshooting your quad!
Dec 08, 2007, 09:09 PM
Registered User
joeling's Avatar
Hi Ted,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
Hi, Joe
I presume that somehow you have extracted the PPM signal from the hitec receiver (I can't find reference to this)
I learnt this from jesolins where he posted a picture at rcuniverse :



Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrobphoto
and also (this is what I particularly wanted to ask) supplied power to that receiver from the Dammar board and fed the signal from the receiver back to the Dammar board. Where do these connections go into the receiver socket?
Basically, taking advice from Mike, I soldered the positive & ground wire to the white connector of the PWB. The main battery connects to these leads to supply the PWB. In turn, the PWB generates appropriate supply to the receiver & is connected via the header where the berg used to connect.











Hope this is useful.

Regards,
Joe Ling
Dec 08, 2007, 09:20 PM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeling
Hi Ted,

Hope this is useful.

Regards,
Joe Ling
Hi Joe,

Nice pictures. Just a quick comment about the power connection to the ESCs. You might want to consider connecting the Plus lead to the fuse side just as a bit of protection in case something gets shorted. If you do decide to use the fuse, a 15 amp should be used instead the 10 amp.

Mike
Dec 08, 2007, 09:33 PM
Registered User
joeling's Avatar
Hi Mike,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike
Hi Joe,

Nice pictures. Just a quick comment about the power connection to the ESCs. You might want to consider connecting the Plus lead to the fuse side just as a bit of protection in case something gets shorted. If you do decide to use the fuse, a 15 amp should be used instead the 10 amp.

Mike
Sorry if I was a little unclear . What I meant is that the leads I soldered on the PWB is only meant for the PWB supply. There are separate wires not connected to the PWB that supplies the escs.

What time is it over there ? it's nearly noon time in this part of the world.

Regards,
Joe Ling

PS : I hope to maiden the quad later this afternoon. Wish me luck as I'm still a tad confuesd about the TI functions.


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Sport Delta own design flying4fun Foamies (Kits) 7 Jun 08, 2004 12:23 AM
New Park Flyer Wing Design John Boren Parkflyers 0 Jul 29, 2003 10:44 PM
New Coroplast Zagi Tray Design mopar_man Foamies (Kits) 10 Sep 12, 2001 08:42 PM