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Oct 20, 2007, 05:12 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Discussion

Please help: Just can't get the hang of nose-in flight.


So,.. I've read through all the 'online articles like 'beginners guide to RC helicopters', bought a flightsim for the PC and had a few months practicing flying the actual model in-tail flight.
All in all, very pleased with my progress.
I can hover all day long without any problems.
I can also bank, slalom between obstacles, zoom along at speed, even fly backwards. The problem is nose-in flight.
My brain just can't handle the fact all the controls are reversed and its driving me mad.

The odd thing is, with the PC flight sim I have no issues.
I just seem to naturally adapt to the helicopters position when flying on the PC. Its so frustrating and annoying that I can't replicate what I can do in the sim to real-life.

I thought it would be simply a matter of gradually introducing more expreme angles. Start of tail-in, then master flying a few degrees at a time.
Eventually flying side-on and finally nose-in.
Just doesn't seem to help me though.

Anyone else suffered from this but found away around it.

thanks and all help appreciated
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Oct 20, 2007, 05:23 AM
Team Mulikow
Gino CP's Avatar
It's no different from learning to hover tail for the first time. YOu start with Radds on the ground all over again. It is not the easiest but it is the quickest method I know. You can try it in the air transitioning from side-in but you tendency is to fly around soon after. You don't get the necessary stick time. If you fly from teh ground, you are committed to nose in for the whole pack.
Oct 20, 2007, 05:41 AM
Registered User
Griff1's Avatar
I found it's really helpful to think of it like this=

If you've got your heli nose in and your looking at it straight down the nose and it's pitching right = move your stick right
pitching left = move your stick left
pitching towards you = pull the stick towards you
pitching away from you = push the stick away from you

treat the tail as normal,if its rotating right then go left.

This method seems to click really easily,it did for me anyway.

I still can't hover worth s**t but nose in flight doesn't worry me.
Oct 20, 2007, 06:36 AM
Registered User
Agree W/ Gino. I put the training gear back on & started attempting lift offs from a “nose in” position (& initially kept it low). Found it really tuff just to do a slow 180. But by starting W/ the nose in I didn't have to make all the mental transitions.
Also W/ the training gear on & a nose in lift off, mistakes are less likely to inflict much damage. Others may suggest getting up high, the theory being, there's more time to recover, & it may work for them. But for me, I find the higher it falls, the harder it hits.

If you have it down the simulator, I think you’ll find it’s mostly a mental barrier you’re fighting, & once you see it there, it will quickly start to feel like the simulator.

To continue, after I felt pretty solid W/ nose-in, I went back to rotating from nose-in to nose-out & vise-versa. Again, keeping low to the ground & W/ the training gear on. The theory being, that if I did it right, I wouldn’t change altitude, & therefore wouldn’t touch the ground anyway. On the other side, if I messed up, & couldn’t hold altitude, I’d be on the ground before momentum had a chance to become a factor.

Good Luck & Have fun
Oct 20, 2007, 07:38 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Cheers for all the replies people.
The training gear is on and I'm determined to teach myself how to fly.

Did any of you have a mental barrier between what you could do on the sim and in the air?
I just find it so strange

Looks like the answer is slow and low takes offs in nose-in flight.
Back to basics.
Oct 20, 2007, 07:52 AM
Team Mulikow
Gino CP's Avatar
Very much so. Real flight allows fear to creep in. The sim is just absolutely immune from this. But the sim develops the required muscle memory for flying. And once you control fear in real flight, it all goes back to you.

A task may seem impossible. And it doesn't click overnight. It's all about accumulating stick time. The more you practice a maneuver, the more it becomes familiar and natural.

If you want to learn nose-in, dedicate whole packs to it. Don't start nose-in and then start goofing off doing other things. If you do that, you only get a few seconds worth of nose in stick time.
Oct 20, 2007, 08:04 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
thanks mate.
Thats reassuring to know
Oct 20, 2007, 08:37 AM
unlicensed helicopter nut
zen@lanset.com's Avatar
SupraStar3000— although it is not entirely meaningful to say "I did such-and-such, so you should do the same", I took a hint from GinoCP that did the trick for me. I equipped a stock Blade CP first with balsa flat bottom blades, then with heavier cambered Kyosho M24's (which really slowed the heli's reaction time to command inputs) and began to fly slow piro's indoors.

After PM's with GinoCP I put it on the floor in front of me nose-in and used 'stick under the low blade' to take off and hold it in a hover for a few seconds. I cycled quite a few batteries this way until hovering nose-in became doable. GinoCP had at one point suggested training sticks are not necessary and I did not use them.

Now I am beginning to hover a brushless powered Blade CP Pro nose-in outdoors, do piro's, and fly wobbly circles.
Last edited by [email protected]; Oct 20, 2007 at 08:43 AM.
Oct 20, 2007, 08:40 AM
drops screws
I can't tell your current skill level from your description. When you say backwards do you mean backwards circuits?

If you are just translating around then there is plenty of other things you can learn before pure nose-in flying. Simple stuff like figure eights and plain old circuits in both directions.
Oct 20, 2007, 09:14 AM
Team Mulikow
Gino CP's Avatar
Most noob crashes occur when the heli accidentally swings in a nose-in orientation. The sooner one learns nose in the better.

As billy mentioned, it is not yet necessary. But it can pay dividends if you take time to learn it.
Oct 20, 2007, 10:01 AM
Registered User
turnbui's Avatar
Don't know if this'll help you but I made sure the ping-pong balls on my trainer were able to move and then I just gave enuf stick to still be on the balls on the ground and let it run until I was able to give just a touch more power to actually fly where the balls were about 2 inches off the ground. Of course rotor wash played havoc but I also learnt how to feather up the power.
Oct 20, 2007, 12:58 PM
Registered User
I'm still working on the nose in hover, I just set the tail trim so it slowly turns around and gives me time to get used to the new position and just let it come around. That way I only stay in nose in for a little while, just let it do a slow piro. This seems to work for me. I use about a 2 ft hover inside in a 20ft square area.
Oct 20, 2007, 12:58 PM
drops screws
I think another good thing to learn before nose-in would to become fear-free when doing fast and semi-low pirouettes. Being able to do those can get you out of many/most jams.
Oct 20, 2007, 03:16 PM
7AC
7AC
Registered User
7AC's Avatar
SupraStar3K,

I did it the "other" way. During FFF and at some altitude I gradually increased the number of "head-in" trips I made with the heli flying directly at me. I used a lot of batteries making "race-track" circuits. This got me used to getting the "left-right" reversal correct without having to deal with the "up-back" issue. Then I just gradually slowed down until it was hovering nose-in, still some 30 or 40 feet up. The altitude gave me a "second chance" when I got the input wrong, I could recover and bring it back to nose-in hover. Then it was just a matter of doing it at gradually lower altitude. I can handle nose-in at eye level now with no problem. I still haven't taken off nose-in yet however.
Oct 20, 2007, 06:45 PM
Registered User
I have the same problem. Today was my third day on my new FP. Tail-in hover is no problem, but turn it around and I get in trouble fast.

Like you, I can do it on the sim all day no problem; also I'm totally solid with my Lama hovering nose-in, Like you, I just don't understand why I'm having such problems.


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