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Dec 06, 2002, 11:28 AM
Registered User
Thread OP

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing else about bashing


I wanted to start a new thread about vendor "bashing" as there were some interesting points in other threads. Feelings seem to run high on this so...

Here are my thoughts on bashing, etc...

I hope that all on these boards will remember to be as civil and polite as they can manage. A few kind words, a please and thank you, and an apologetic request for help go a long way to maintain the lubrication of society. I have been robbed, cheated, spit upon, and lied to as most humans have. I get angry when that happens and may even curse, shout, and act like an @$$. But that usually gets me far fewer results than graciously asking for help or redress.

I think I have a right to share factual stories of exceptional vendor experiences, both good and bad. I would suggest that if bad experiences are shared, temper them with those wonderful interactions you have with vendors. If that were the case, I wonder would there still be a call for the vendor forum to be closed due to "bashing"?

A good use for these forums would be to share those experiences and any techniques we used to improve good experiences and resolve bad ones.

So lavish compliments on the companies and individuals who deserve it. Tell us when it happened and who was wonderful. Extol the virtues of good products here and on the other boards. When you have a bad experience first, try to count to ten. Then work as best you can in a polite, civil, and calm manner with the vendor to resolve the problem. If you can't resolve it, give lots of details. When did it happen? With whom did you deal? What name did they call you (or you them!) We can all benefit from this kind of input, even vendors who watch this forum.

I know I want to deal with individuals whether they are business owners or sole proprietors. If they are employed with a business they may have limits to what they can do to help. I almost always start by saying, "I don't know if you can help me but ...". Most people will try to help if asked. I have even asked them if certain requests I had were within their authority (that way I get them on my side in case I need to talk with a manager, at least I know where I stand). With a proprietor the same approach may work although they may be operating on thinner profit margins so try to work with them to resolve a problem.

For example, if I buy a battery pack at a LHS that is defective I know I have to drive to the store to ask that it be replaced or sent for repair. My hope is that they will replace it, but they may choose to send it for repair depending on how they themselves decide to warrant the products they stock and sell. I consider that reasonable, as I should ask about warranties (buyer beware) before purchase and make that part of my purchase decision. Likewise, if I purchase a pack via mail order I should be asking warranty questions, and should be willing to bear the burden of shipping the pack to the vendor for redress. There are different business models, some that offer the lowest price with little service, and others who offer more service albeit at a higher cost. It is up to me to make the choice with whom I am going to spend my hard earned cash. Sometimes I buy at the LHS and pay a bit more because I can touch and feel the product. I know I can ask them support questions because that is built into the price. Sometimes I buy mail order, but I accept the support level offered, because I asked about service and warranty before I bought.

I hope my thoughts make sense and are helpful. Please note, my comments are not meant to offend, harass, or anger anyone. They are my thoughts, opinions, and beliefs. And I welcome the thoughts and opinions of others.

Let's make informed decisions, be civil, and all have fun. If all we have to do it moan and complain all the time, why be in the hobby?
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Dec 06, 2002, 11:59 AM

very well written...


thanks

Steve Hill
Dec 06, 2002, 12:43 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Hope it made you smile


Hope it made you smile.

I sensed some anger and frustration in some of your other posts.

Please be sure to share more of your thougts and ideas on this topic sometime so we can keep this debate and topic on the minds of EZoners. I think we have a great asset here in the EZone if we use it wisely.

Matt

PS: I am not a vendor, just an user of the products in an attempt to pretend like I can pilot rc aircraft.
Dec 06, 2002, 03:03 PM
Registered User
What I don't understand is why people consider the relaying of a bad experience with a company as "bashing." In the thread in question, I read the original story as, "This is what happened to me. Buyer beware." That's an anecdote, which, I might add, was followed up by overwhelmingly positive remarks about the vendor. How on earth is this "bashing?"

Bashing is unfounded, unqualified: "Don't buy from these guys! They're a bunch of jerks and all they'll do is screw you out of your hard earned money!"
Dec 07, 2002, 02:55 AM
DNA
DNA
registered user
DNA's Avatar
"So lavish compliments on the companies and individuals who deserve it."

Matt,

Since you're fairly new here, I suggest you look back at some of
the other pages of posts in this forum. There have been good
posts about vendors. The big problem is no one reads those
posts. I made a few good posts myself, sometimes about a
vendor that had been bashed before. I took a chance and placed
an order with a vendor to see if what I was reading about that
vendor was true. I had a good experience with them so I
posted it. Very few members even bothered to read it. I guess
this forum is a bit like the National Enquirer.(if it's still being printed?)
People want to read the nasty stuff, not the good stuff. Go figure.
Dec 07, 2002, 07:19 AM
As the saying goes: A happy customer may tell one other person, but a mad customer will tell at least ten.
I for one like hearing both sides of the spectrum good and bad. Although this does not always sway me either way, the reaction from the said "vendor" will. If they do everything in there power to make the situation right or at least help clarify there position than I gain respect for that vendor. But on the other hand if they are childish and have nothing but accusations and negativity then I will stay far away. I have seen both lately.

Kevin
Last edited by Kevin P; Dec 07, 2002 at 07:22 AM.
Dec 07, 2002, 11:36 PM
Registered User
No vendor that I am aware of walks on water. They just like you and me are subject to human failings. Since I am not perfect I don't expect anyone else to be. So when a vendor makes a mistake I try to give him every opportunity to correct his error. If and when this fails I may post a warning to others as to what my experiences may have been.

However I will never advise anyone not to do business with someone based on a single disapointing event, That is a decision that must be made within your own mind. Posting titles such as STAY AWAY FROM or DISHONEST VENDOR is at least to me an immediate turn off. These are not statements that engender trust but rather scream of vindictiveness.

The old adage about honey and flies is very true. Be rational and your post will carry more weight.
Dec 20, 2002, 04:23 AM

good reviews.....


I have written some good reviews about online vendors. They dont get a lot of posts but I do see that they are viewed a lot. I dont expect such threads to attract a lot of posts as it would look kinda silly if more than a few guys went "me too"! A point like that gets thru quite easily. I just wanted to emphasize that good reviews are viewed a lot too.

As for negative posts, let me give you an analogy. Who gets more viewers, WWF or Sunday TV Mass. Its human nature, everyone loves to watch a fight, or better yet, throw in a punch to two.

Heres a suggestion: maybe the Ezone moderators can put the threads with the most no. of views for a given no.s of days on top of the thread lists instead of the ones with the most recent posts.

JT
Dec 20, 2002, 10:07 AM
Registered User
Alan W's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by BillM
No vendor that I am aware of walks on water. They just like you and me are subject to human failings. Since I am not perfect I don't expect anyone else to be. So when a vendor makes a mistake I try to give him every opportunity to correct his error. If and when this fails I may post a warning to others as to what my experiences may have been.

However I will never advise anyone not to do business with someone based on a single disapointing event, That is a decision that must be made within your own mind. Posting titles such as STAY AWAY FROM or DISHONEST VENDOR is at least to me an immediate turn off. These are not statements that engender trust but rather scream of vindictiveness.

The old adage about honey and flies is very true. Be rational and your post will carry more weight.

Excellent Bill !!! My Feelings exactly.

Personally....I think No One should start a negative thread without an attempt to remidy the situation with the vendor first. It doesn't matter if you purchased a 50% scale glider for $5,000 and recieved a $.50 hand chuck glider.....you still have to contact them, tell them of the error, and give them the opportunity to resolve it - BEFORE you come here and tell your (hopefully factual) story.

IF, once this is done, the vendor fails to resolve the issue then I feel a factual detailed post is justified.....and appreciated by us other consumers.

In almost 20 years of making hobby purchases .....there have been problems on occasion with just about every vendor I've dealt with. Almost all were resolved satisfactorly. I never lost my temper nor did they. Those few that didn't resolve MY issues no longer recieve my Business.

My Choice. My Disposeable Income.

One other thing - It is very important to derive YOUR opinion from YOUR experience(s) and not just by word of mouth, unless such word is delivered Unanimously, repeated....and this works both ways.

For Example - I've eaten at restaurants that everyone has raved about and walked away thinking .....knowing, for the same money I could have gone to _____ and gotten the meal of my Life. I've seen Movies ( Spielbergs' AI, Moulan Rouge..... for instance) that people walked away shaking their heads and I absoluetly Loved !! If I had Listened to them, on both examples, I wouldn't have formed MY OWN opinion.

It is sad to read a post from a person farely new to the hobby, deciding NOT to buy from a specific vendor, because they "Heard" or read of a problem someone had.....once....and possibly not hearing of its resolution.

Alan W
Last edited by Alan W; Dec 20, 2002 at 10:10 AM.
Dec 20, 2002, 10:38 AM
Live to ride... and fly!
Tres Wright's Avatar
Good thread MG!

I don't give a lot of credence to a single complaint about a vendor, but when I see numerous complaints from different people over a long period of time then I stand up and take note! I think we have 3 types of negative vendor related posts on E Zone:

THE BASH- Some people just have an axe to grind for whatever reason. They jump into any thread at all and use it as an excuse to trash a vendor. They do not seek any redress at all, they're just plain being mean.

THE VENT- There are folks that are extremely frustrated about a deal and want to vent, they typically have only had one bad experience with a vendor but it went so bad that they want to type out their frustrations in a thread or post. The posts tend to be pretty hot-headed filled with colorful descriptions of the vendor that have nothing to do with the deal! Usually these people end up calming down later and quite often either modify or delete their post after being contacted by the vendor and resolving the situation.

THE WARNING- These people have had one or more bad deals with a vendor, tried to resolve it in a diplomatic fashion, were not able to resolve it to their satisfaction and post a calm warning post as a warning to others that something went wrong with the vendor.

Personally I think it's pretty easy to tell the three types of posts apart. The 3rd type are the ones I pay the most attention to and are the least frequently posted of the 3 types. The 2nd type seems to be what I see the most of. I don't have a problem with people venting, it's better than kicking your dog around I just don't pay much attention to the vent posts.
Dec 20, 2002, 02:46 PM
Balsa Flies Better!

Nice summary...could it be a sticky?


I think this thread should be "highly suggested" reading before posting something inflammatory. I think all the posters have summarized previous threads well, and made good constructive comments. Kudos to all. Could we make this sticky so it doesn't get lost?

Sam
Dec 20, 2002, 03:36 PM
Very well thought out and written comments. I'll put it as a sticy for a while and see what happens.
Don
Dec 20, 2002, 05:03 PM
somewhere in South America
ShredAir's Avatar
A lot of these bashing/venting threads would be more truthful and civil if the venters/bashers were required to identify themselves properly. Should it not be feasible to invoke a rule that anyone starting an accusing thread about anyone else must identify themselves at least by real name and location?

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com
Dec 20, 2002, 05:20 PM
Balsa Flies Better!

Dieter see above...


Dieter

Tres has made an excellent point with classifying threads into three categories-
1) The Bash
2) The Vent
3) The Warning

Most folks who've been around the block only really pay attention to #3, and odds are you'll find that these folks identify themselves. As far as I'm concerned, somebody who can't identify him/herself is likely to be doing #1, i.e. bashing.

What I've noticed is that vendors who try to put a stop to bashing generally do themselves more harm then good since the vendor comes across as being accusatory in turn. As a suggestion-Why not let bashers foam at the mouth but simply ignore them? Why not give bashers enough rope to let them hang themselves?

Sam Brauer
Stamford, CT
Dec 20, 2002, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by ShredAir
A lot of these bashing/venting threads would be more truthful and civil if the venters/bashers were required to identify themselves properly. Should it not be feasible to invoke a rule that anyone starting an accusing thread about anyone else must identify themselves at least by real name and location?

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com
How in the world would you know if they are telling the truth about their name and address. Look at the H Hand threads as an example.
Don


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