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Sep 23, 2007, 01:36 PM
Veni Vidi Volavi
Brian Allen's Avatar
Thanks for all the nice comments guys!! I like highly "visible" covering schemes as it makes it much easier for my poor eyes to see them!!

Tommy, my Shaft does not have any tendency to go right on or after takeoff or in flight. Seems to want to power straight ahead in the usual flight attitudes.

I would check for a warp or twist or misalignment. Does sound a bit strange however. Maybe too much right thrust? I did not add any extra right or down on mine and it seems to fly OK although I may add just a tad of each to keep the power on/power off flight attitudes similar. Not sure if I will or not, might try it as an experiment. Then again I may not fool with anything as it does seem to fly very nicely!!

Brian Allen

Veni Vidi Volavi

I came I saw I flew
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Sep 23, 2007, 01:48 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
I added the right thrust Brian, one washer under each of the left mounting screws per the directions. Can't imagine that did a whole lot. I've built a handful of kits, its dead straight, square and not twists, I'm positive. I may be reading something into my first taxi attempts that wasn't there. I'll know on tuesday or wednesday.

Thanks,

Tom
Sep 23, 2007, 04:41 PM
Veni Vidi Volavi
Brian Allen's Avatar
Tommy

Thanks for the note. I thought you had mentioned that you had checked the plane out for straightness but I thought I would ask just in case .

Couple other things to look at I just thought of. Since the two elevator halves are glued together with a joiner sometimes one elevator half gets a bit out of plumb with the other. I would assume that you have checked this but it may be worth a look to see if the two elevator halves are in the same plane with respect to the other

I also noted that if the rubber bands used to hold the LG in place are not drawn up real tight the gear can flex and bounce around. I had to loop the band 6 times around the gear and dowel to get the gear tight. Perhaps your gear is a bit loose and is bouncing around and causing some weird orientation on takeoff?

Hope you can figure out what is causing the trouble. It is a real nice flyer, hope you can get yours sorted out soon and flying well!!!

Brian Allen

Veni Vidi Volavi

I came I saw I flew
Sep 23, 2007, 04:48 PM
BEC
BEC
Registered User
BEC's Avatar
I just got the "in stock" notification from SA....so it's officially available for purchase.
Sep 23, 2007, 05:23 PM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Tommy been thinking about the roll right more... I've gone out with two washers under the left side of the motor and still no roll right tendency but it sure would hook right on climb out... so I don't think it could be thrust line related.

I'm wondering if the rudder isn't aligned straight / parallel with the vertical stab... as this is a high wing model you are getting some + dihedral from the design and there will be a slight amount of roll with rudder application.

Just a thought.
Sep 23, 2007, 07:34 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks for the tips guys. Since I know everything is straight, it must be pilot related. I'm sure it will fly fine.
Sep 23, 2007, 08:15 PM
Registered User
Hey Tommy- I know you have probably checked but are your wheels rolling smooth? Double check and make sure one of them if not binding up.

Just a thought. I have had this happen on one of my planes once.
Sep 25, 2007, 01:25 AM
Registered User
I have to work on my wheels, drilling them out as per the instructions has left them pretty tight still.

How are people hinging the control surfaces? I'm planning on using 3M Multipurpose tape.
Sep 25, 2007, 05:48 PM
Veni Vidi Volavi
Brian Allen's Avatar
Tommy


Hhave you had a hcance to take the Shaft out again?

Hope all goes well when you do.

As far as hinging the surfaces, I used the Blenderm tape sold bu Dubro. Seems to work fine.

Brian Allen

Veni Vidi Volavi

I came I saw I flew
Sep 26, 2007, 12:34 AM
Registered User
echoplanar's Avatar
Anyone shot any video of the shaft yet? I don't need another kit now...but that has never really stopped me. Got plenty of batteries and all the electronics.

-Jon
Sep 26, 2007, 07:05 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
I just dropped an order - thanks to a little bonus cash from work, the CEO/CFO dosen't mind. I've got a fly-in on 10/6, so I'm shoting for a maiden before then.
Sep 26, 2007, 08:31 AM
White Mountains in NH
dlabrie's Avatar
I just sent in my order for the Shaft!

Tommy, please keep us updated on subsequent flights.

David
Sep 26, 2007, 11:20 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Flight Update:

I'm embarassed to say that my "roll right" problem was due to operator error. I had the aileron channel reversed, doh! With the DX6 it is possible to screw up the model change sequence and/or going into programming mode and reverse whatever channel is first to appear. It is very difficult for a 7 y.o. to get into the model menu and this has happened before when he tried. Don't get me wrong, I accept all responsibility on this one and before I remaidened today I very quickly caught the error. No harm done except for the shaft so I'll chalk it up to experience.

As predicted, the Shaft flies fantastic!! I need to experiment with props on this motor as I swapped out to a 10x4.7 sf at the last minute, and while it has plenty of torque, I think I'd prefer the pitch speed of the 9x6 I had previously tried. With the previously mentioned Scorpion/Hacker A22 equivalent (2215-22 I believe) and the 10x4.7 I got somewhere around 175 watts which gives what Bill would call "spirited" flight. Plenty of power for all maneuvers but not quite enought to hold a hover or give vertical performance. I would rate it at maybe 65% of the PNP mini ultra stick in terms of performance. Essentially what we have here is a very well mannered MUS.

As far as flight characteristics, the rollout for takeoff was maybe 30 feet mainly due to the rather high grass I was taxiing on. I need a few clicks of left aileron and the recommended cg (3" aft) appeared to be spot on requiring just a touch of down elevator to remain inverted. I initially took off on low rates which I have set for 25% more than recommended with 30% expo dialed in. Very smooth flier with these settings. I was comfortable enough that I attempted some loops and roll before even adding any trim. I cruised around and go a feel for her, and found it to fly extremely predictable, but feeling slightly draggy possibly due to the larger prop. It maneuvers extremely clean and I found myself going to high rates (50% expo) after maybe a minute or two of flight. On high, I have 3d like throws on all surfaces, 45 degree on aileron and elevator, with the rudder just clearing the elevator. Very agressive rolls and loops and I would probably be able to maintain hover given enough thrust. It will loop in two or three fuse lenghts and at 90 degrees of roll will bank turns in no more than a fifteen foot circle. Inverted flight is a pleasure, and it will knife edge much better than my mini ultra stick even though its underpowered relative to that plane. I felt comfortable doing rolls ten feet off the deck as they were extremely axial with not rudder input. Plenty of rudder on this plane. Snap rolls were very tight. It slows down to a walk for landing, something that requires some flaperon mixing to do on the MUS. Very predictable stall, and I know this is a bit of a cliche, but no bad tendencies. Rollout on landing in the aforemention grass was just a few feet, with the gear absorbing all the shock and no tendency to nose over.

With the current power setup, I'd say this plane performs exactly as designed and perfect for the target pilot, as a step up from a stick to an aerobatic aileron trainer. It fills that niche perfectly, and in fact could make a great first plane in some cases. Of course I would recommend that anyone miss out on the SA stik planes. For those of us that have more experience, it is capable of performing most aerobatic maneuvers in a very docile and relaxing format.

As for me, I need to juice this thing up One of the things that dawned on me as I balanced the plane for cg, is that it could use a bit more weight in the nose. I'm at 17 oz AUW, with a 66 gram motor up front, meaning my tp 1320 needs to just about be buried in the front compartment. Its a bit awkward to secure the battery this way. I'm thinking go to something in the park 450 size giving me another 20 or so grams up front and 50 or so more watts of power. A park 480 seemed an indecent proposal at first, but I'm warming up to it.

I'm hopefully going to get out tonight and let my son try it out before I mess with the power system, at which point I will make an effort to get some video and let you guys have a look.

My prelimary recommendation is that Bill has done it again with this one, particularly for the intended market on the suggested A20-20 power system. Hopefully we'll start to see some experimentation with power setups and see what this plane is capable of in the right hands. Wing bolts may be required
Sep 26, 2007, 11:26 AM
Pan Pan Pan
Harri3's Avatar
Thanks for the update!

I'll be ordering my Shaft today after I decide what motor to use.
Sep 26, 2007, 03:58 PM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
With the previously mentioned Scorpion/Hacker A22 equivalent (2215-22 I believe) and the 10x4.7 I got somewhere around 175 watts which gives what Bill would call "spirited" flight. Plenty of power for all maneuvers but not quite enought to hold a hover or give vertical performance.
Tommy, seems to me that at 175w and 17oz you are running 164w/lb should be plenty for hover. On my 17oz Stella an A20-22 w/10x4.7 and 175w hovers it just fine... and 200W with the A20-20L makes it just obnoxious... all this performance at 6500' ASL. It just makes me wonder with 175W in to the system I'd expect more from the power system... maybe the efficiency is not the same? What sort of RPM's are you taching? Just curious anyways as I know very little about the Scorpion motors.

-Bill


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