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Aug 29, 2007, 10:41 AM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince53
With the rapid adoption of 2.4 gHz radio gear and the incompatability of the various systems, receiver integration would be difficult. When almost everyone was on 72 MHz that would have worked great, an off the shelf working package.

Vince
Don't the 2.4 GHz units provide normal PWM 1-2ms signals to the servos? If so there should be no issue. My autopilot just reads the pulses provided by Rx that normally go straight to a servo.

I'll admit I don't yet own a 2.4 GHz system.
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Aug 29, 2007, 10:45 AM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince53
Ok, I'm a little confused now. What are the five outputs from the AttoPilot?
Thanks
Vince
Per what you configure in the settings.txt on SD card, the 5 outputs are whatever you want them to be.

For a simple Rud/Elev/Throttle plane that happens to have a camera trigger with servo, you would assign 3 of the outputs to control rudd, elev, and throttle, and another output to control the camera shutter servo. Take your pick of which servo outputs do what.

BTW - there are no label stickers shown on the beta. your betas will look a bit more "professional" with logo and descriptive stickers.
Aug 29, 2007, 10:49 AM
Closed Account
Good Ideas....
RS232 Uplink capability (to add Maxstream or Aerocomm module) for GPS Downling and/or programming uplink or better: tilt and pan gimbal control
GPS OUT Header - to plug data into OSD
Mission Data on SD card - Pop in SD Card - Fly the plan on card - no laptop necessary to reprogram AutoPilot on ground.
Event triggering on Waypoint -


Not so Good...
Intergrated RX - too many RXs out there - you'd limit the appeal with a onboard RX
Intergrated OSD - same here... there is not one OSD that suits everybody


Jeff
Aug 29, 2007, 11:30 AM
Registered User
Mark Harris's Avatar
Problem with integrated RX is.. what if you want to use PCM, if so.. do you want PCM1024 or PCM that JR offer? or other PCM? too many different kinds of receiver... and then there is the "how many channels do you need" question. Some full featured UAV's may use 9 channels.. some may only use 3.
Aug 29, 2007, 11:35 AM
Smashing Planes since 1982
Tahoe Jmfc's Avatar
Integration of Receiver

The integrated RX could be good for entry level, but you are going to narrow your customers, everyone is on different systems and with the new 2.4 stuff there is another problem, Im still using my really nice Hitech remote and do not plan on upgrading at all because i have 2 of these remotes with trainer cords. The 2.4g systems needs more time to take hold a bit first so that the market share of your customers are using the new frequency before integration of one or the other can take place without cutting out a large group of potential customers that do not have 2.4 yet.

Also I don't know about you but I have had 2 RXs go bad over the last year and have had to send them back to the manufacturer. Do you want to deal with this if your receivers start to fail or glitch? Although I love how integration would save space, weight and reduce clutter inside the aircraft.

Mark Harris has a great point in that there are too many competing formats of receivers out there. Choosing just one of the 4 types could limit your customer base, time will tell what type of reciever will dominate, but that will take time to see what happens to the 2.4g system and how hard and fast it takes root in the RC community.

I know that alot of guys at my shop in Auburn California have changed to the 2.4g system, but they get all there controllers at cost so the expense for the switch is not that bad for them. I will have to pay full price to switch, this is not very appealing for me because I have too many college loans right now and every dollar counts. But ultimatly i see myself moving to the new format if it is all that it is made out to be.

By the way, once you get the stickers on the unit and have a finished product i will do my photo magic and get you really nice images for your marketing. Having Pro imagery of your product really makes a difference, creating a quality perception to investors and customers.
Last edited by Tahoe Jmfc; Aug 29, 2007 at 01:13 PM.
Aug 29, 2007, 12:57 PM
Smashing Planes since 1982
Tahoe Jmfc's Avatar
How many Channels

9 channels on the deluxe model might be a bit nice or complete overkill, using them to control other feature on the plane like landing gear, lights, camera, etc would be nice, but the only reason to route these feature through attopilot would be for the range issue.. Conventional controllers will not reach the range that a Wireless modem would reach and would be a reason to integrate more channels into the Attopilot so that the additional controls could be activated/deactivated from a computer groundstation with the additional range available with the wireless modem. but what are the rules in the USA about UAV flight?
Last edited by Tahoe Jmfc; Aug 29, 2007 at 01:14 PM.
Aug 29, 2007, 01:08 PM
Smashing Planes since 1982
Tahoe Jmfc's Avatar
Future Advanced AttoPilot Configuation Ideas
Dont Forget we still need to focus on the first beta project, testing and completion for market, this is just ideas to throw about.
As for the Future advanced product key features, here are some ideas for integration into the Attopilot
1. Return to home if battery is getting low
2. Additional channels
3. 7 or 14 mile 2 way wireless modem integration
4. OSD or downlink of critical information to the ground station i.e. temp, volts, GPS and bearings, camera link
5. Dynamic GPS update to Attopilot
6. Software that displays maps and Sat imagery with current GPS location of plane, and planned flight path along with flight path record and display on map.
7. The one thing that is really key to making this unit appealing is the voltage display link to ground station. or if someone is on a gas system then a sensor that transmits low fuel warning back to ground station..

Everyone please take this list and start expanding and adding model numbers of parts that you may recommend, like modems, antennae’s, gimble mounts for various camera sizes, temp and voltage sensors, etc.

We should be helping develop a complete platform for Dean that includes every accessory that the customer may be interested in purchasing from Attopilot, from video cameras to still cameras, to sensors, to modems, to accessory switches, to gimble mounts and so on.

Being Beta testers and Dean being a one man show we need to help make this project become a reality for him by supplying him with as much information as possible - hope this will help get the Nerds
Last edited by Tahoe Jmfc; Aug 29, 2007 at 04:51 PM.
Aug 29, 2007, 02:00 PM
Multicopter/FPV/UAV/HAM
_helitron_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgoedde
Helitron - those short servo extension adapters will be provided with each beta!
Great dmgoedde ! Beside to your Rx (if it's available for 35 MHz!) I've planned to test also with my Futaba PCM Rx.

Regarding the planned integrated Rx, not to forget the different frequencies, we need 35 MHz here in the EU for example.

//Erwin
Last edited by _helitron_; Aug 29, 2007 at 02:34 PM.
Aug 29, 2007, 02:01 PM
Closed Account

but what are the rules in the USA about UAV flight?


If this is a technology development discussion, the above question throws the conversation WAY off topic...

Rules and Laws are too fluid to tie your hands this early.

Jeff
Aug 29, 2007, 02:39 PM
Multicopter/FPV/UAV/HAM
_helitron_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgoedde
Per what you configure in the settings.txt on SD card, the 5 outputs are whatever you want them to be.

For a simple Rud/Elev/Throttle plane that happens to have a camera trigger with servo, you would assign 3 of the outputs to control rudd, elev, and throttle, and another output to control the camera shutter servo. Take your pick of which servo outputs do what.

BTW - there are no label stickers shown on the beta. your betas will look a bit more "professional" with logo and descriptive stickers.
By the way, a question to the servo outputs dmgoedde, is the autopilot able to control two aileron servos ? I mean without Y-cable of course, that means two aileron channels into the autopilot from the Rx and two out from the autopilot to the aileron servos (necessary for flaperons for example).

//Erwin
Last edited by _helitron_; Aug 29, 2007 at 02:45 PM.
Aug 29, 2007, 03:28 PM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Harris
Problem with integrated RX is.. what if you want to use PCM, if so.. do you want PCM1024 or PCM that JR offer? or other PCM? too many different kinds of receiver... and then there is the "how many channels do you need" question. Some full featured UAV's may use 9 channels.. some may only use 3.
These are great points for a more advanced system - however I need to stress that the goal here is successful Beta of base-level unit featuring easy tuning of flight for Rud/Elev/Throttle planes w/ polyhedral wings. Apparently there is a lot of frustration out there that no-one yet sells a truly user-friendly system with any serious capabilities.

Let's get past beta, we can later upgrade firmware on the beta units to handle all sorts of things including IMU.

Also, everyone please realize (as has been stated before) that this beta does not use IMU, thus can't do true wing-levelling (I understand that U-NAV claims "wing levelling" but they also disclaim that there system does not employ IMU, thus indicating why people report wing-rocking and issues with wing-levelling on U-NAV system). I will gaurantee performance of the Beta on polyhedral wing trainers like the HobbyLobby Miss2, or powered glider type planes. All testers need to understand this.
Aug 29, 2007, 03:33 PM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by workshop
Not so Good...
Intergrated RX - too many RXs out there - you'd limit the appeal with a onboard RX
Intergrated OSD - same here... there is not one OSD that suits everybody

Jeff
I wouldn't "only" sell integrated Rx unit, but is proposed as one product for sale. Could come in really handy if you want to be the first person on your block with a 5 ounce park-flyer UAV, because in a SMD version of my autopilot I can envision <1 ounce for entire Rx+Autopilot+GPS+antenna. Again, this might be a niche product that suits a sub-group of enthusiasts, but I would never make this my only product.

I never considered an integrated OSD, I'm aiming for the most general system I can provide to work with array of people's equipment on the stated type of airframe.
Aug 29, 2007, 03:37 PM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe Jmfc
Integration of Receiver
By the way, once you get the stickers on the unit and have a finished product i will do my photo magic and get you really nice images for your marketing. Having Pro imagery of your product really makes a difference, creating a quality perception to investors and customers.
YES! I had that thought as I took a look at your website and was totally amazed. The photos of people look so real and not staged at all. Very nice.

Professional pics would be great, and we could negotaite payment by hardware trade of ca$h. But, this is another thread
Aug 29, 2007, 03:42 PM
Registered User
dmgoedde's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe Jmfc
Future Advanced AttoPilot Configuation Ideas

As for the Future advanced product key features, here are some ideas for integration into the Attopilot
1. Return to home if battery is getting low
2. Additional channels
3. 7 or 14 mile 2 way wireless modem integration
4. OSD or downlink of critical information to the ground station i.e. temp, volts, GPS and bearings, camera link
5. Dynamic GPS update to Attopilot
6. Software that displays maps and Sat imagery with current GPS location of plane, and planned flight path along with flight path record and display on map.
7. The one thing that is really key to making this unit appealing is the voltage display link to ground station. or if someone is on a gas system then a sensor that transmits low fuel warning back to ground station..

Everyone please take this list and start expanding and adding model numbers of parts that you may recommend, like modems, antennae’s, gimble mounts for various camera sizes, temp and voltage sensors, etc.

We should be helping develop a complete platform for Dean that includes every accessory that the customer may be interested in purchasing from Attopilot, from video cameras to still cameras, to sensors, to modems, to accessory switches, to gimble mounts and so on.

Being Beta testers and Dean being a one man show we need to help make this project become a reality for him by supplying him with as much information as possible - hope this will help get the Nerds
Wow! You sound as enthusiastic as I am. We can focus on all of this LATER! For beta testing I'm really just requiring that all bugs get flushed out and fixed on basic functionality, because nothing else matters much until we have 20 beta testers confirm that all problems are hammered out. I have 100% confidence that this Beta approach is the correct approach and that when I execute on all issues found by betas, will have a ultra rock-solid platform, plus all 20 betas will have in their possesion latest firmware with only $150 invested.
Aug 29, 2007, 05:07 PM
Registered User
Rockeyes's Avatar
I think that a very small and simple all intergraded three or four-channel unit for a park flyer a/c has appeal. To have a very small machine that could fly a pre-programmed route would be great fun and a great way for all ages to learn. It may be an idea, depending on your market, if such a unit waypoints distance could be controlled (locked) to provide a degree of safety.

The other end is the end (and maybe somewhere in the middle) is where someone is looking for a good, reliable, simple to operate autopilot that does not cost the earth and has the potential to grow with his or her requirements. Being a relative new guy here and not having the electronic background as a lot of the users of this forum. I can categorically say this will always be a very narrow market until one does not feel you need a PhD in electronics just to get started.
Now if I could find simple and concise web source that I could have a read up, see some sample videos of the equipment and how it can all integrate. Would be marvellous. If I could access this and purchase online various components to assemble in either ready made or in kit form I would be ecstatic. That would also go for A/P, FPV and OSD’s etc. Plug and play

Sorry about that

Could the AttoPilot use PCM type receivers? I have had glance back but cannot see the answer……….Thanks

>Bill
Last edited by Rockeyes; Aug 29, 2007 at 05:13 PM.


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