Want to be on a TV show about amateur UAVs? - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Aug 12, 2007, 04:20 PM
Registered User
Jack Crossfire's Avatar
On http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx they show two locations that look like they could be flying fields.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubdetails.aspx?club=157

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubdetails.aspx?club=544

Other than that, there are a number of parks.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...&t=k&z=17&om=1

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...&t=k&z=19&om=1

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...&t=k&z=19&om=1

A school which is sometimes accessible on weekends.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...&t=k&z=18&om=1

Empty space for a future office park.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...&t=k&z=18&om=1

In the worst case there's always home video of flying.
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Aug 12, 2007, 04:40 PM
Registered User
Gene,

The Bat has passed certification and has COA's in place at several restricted airspace flying sites in the Northern California area. We also regularly fly at military bases with restricted airspace. I just returned from a big military demo in Australia where we flew in restricted airspace. Two years ago I flew for 2 weeks in Mexico with approval from the aviation authorities (no COA needed there).

Steve
Aug 12, 2007, 05:29 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbco
Gene,

The Bat has passed certification and has COA's in place at several restricted airspace flying sites in the Northern California area. We also regularly fly at military bases with restricted airspace. I just returned from a big military demo in Australia where we flew in restricted airspace. Two years ago I flew for 2 weeks in Mexico with approval from the aviation authorities (no COA needed there).

Steve
Ah.... very good. I guess maybe that's where we screwed up. Our target market from the very outset was law enforcement, fire, and municipalities, so we never went for the DoD/Contractor money. Prior to Feb 13th it was never a problem to go on searches or even do prove out flights. But now, with no mil contracts, no DoD, no sponsorship, we are high and dry. I guess the axiom still holds true... "it's not what ya know, but who ya know"
Aug 12, 2007, 06:13 PM
Chris Anderson
Jack,

Thanks so much for great links. I know the AMA clubs and they generally frown on anything that looks like a UAV, regardless of whether it's FAA legal or not (it's an insurance thing). The Alameda Hornets, which were okay with our semi-autonomous aircraft, unfortunately lost their field (we use another nearby runway under an engineering clearance).

In general, the only reason not to fly at the Alameda would be wind; it's otherwise perfect. As soon as we set the date, we can pick a backup site from your list in case the wind is too high on the day. I'll keep you updated...

--Chris
Aug 12, 2007, 08:35 PM
Registered User
Jack Crossfire's Avatar
Early morning is the best time to avoid high winds. Other than that, the chances of anything exciting happening with the copter are pretty low.
Aug 12, 2007, 08:53 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlite
I know the AMA clubs and they generally frown on anything that looks like a UAV, regardless of whether it's FAA legal or not (it's an insurance thing).
Would you guys like a number to call to check on the legality of what you are about to do? I'd be happy to help!

Gene
Aug 12, 2007, 11:56 PM
Electronics Engineer
Aeroflot's Avatar
Well done Geek dads! I understand your motivation perfectly it’s a great thing to get children involved in robotics, especially if they fly around, getting the kids off the game boy outside and playing with RC aircraft fantastic! and that lego AP project I have 3 young guys that just added lego to there santa list.

Forget about criticism…… welcome fellow geek dad! Regardless of your projects commercial or non commercial interests I can see you are going to need a lot more lego to keep young minds active.

Needs no explanation, level playing, or donation!
Aug 13, 2007, 10:40 PM
Registered User
No criticism Aeroflot..... just a simple question.

That I guess will go unanswered......

And no wants to find out if it would be legal or not.....

If you do, the number is (202) 385-4677, that'll be Bruce......
Aug 13, 2007, 10:51 PM
Chris Anderson
Gene,

Just to give you some perspective, here's a picture of our "UAV" and its pilot/creator, who is nine. He made it out of Lego. Are you sure this is a matter for the FAA?

Chris
Aug 14, 2007, 12:04 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexFlyer
Reed, Reed, Reed,....(and Zlite too).....

I'm just a simple businessman trying to produce civilian UA's. I have no DoD contracts, contractor sponsorships, or university endowments,...... I have no friends that can get me into controlled airspace. Because I use my UA's in humanitarian situations that get alot of attention, and to have the FAA call me directly and tell me to "cease and desist", I think it's reasonable for me to ask the question. Why do *I* have to stop doing humanitarian work when you guys are logging hours in a commercial endeavor and what (in this case) would appear to be public airspace?

All I'm asking for is a level playing field. Is that too much to ask?

Respectfully,

Gene

Gene,

I think I am with you on this one.... My comment before the edit was pretty heavy with sarcasm. I decide not to stir the pot, so I removed it, but I agree - it is time to start playing by the rules. Fortunatly, we have fairly low cost restricted airspace a short drive (2 hours....) away at Dugway proving grounds wich we are making good use of. The days of flying at the park are ending...

Reed
Aug 14, 2007, 12:10 AM
Registered User
hehehe... have you seen *my* UAV? It's made out of a beer cooler. OK, EPS anyway....and I will wager that my ALL UP weight, ready to fly is less than what that handsome young lad is holding without the wings on it! My vision and perspective is quite clear.......You see, there are people out there like AOPA, ALPA, and the like who could care less what it's made out of. You are in THEIR airspace. And the FAA is the guardian of that airspace. Seriously, call the number I gave you and explain what you are doing and get an opinion. Or better still, get PBS to call on your behalf. What's it going to hurt?

I'd be willing to bet you there are several folks lurking in this thread that could tell you what the response will be but won't say a word.

EDIT : OK so Reed is ONE who will! Anyone else?
Last edited by CenTexFlyer; Aug 14, 2007 at 12:16 AM.
Aug 14, 2007, 12:14 AM
Registered User
Hey Reed,

You posted as I was typing, and dang it if you weren't right on the spot! Believe me I don't like it any more than anyone. I applaud trying to get kids into aeronautics, I've loved it all my life. We need more Junior Birdmen out there as far as I'm concerned, but our world is changing. Shaped by the deeds of a few that will effect the future of us all.

If you haven't written your legislator or elected official, you should so!

Gene
Aug 14, 2007, 01:01 AM
Electronics Engineer
Aeroflot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexFlyer
No criticism Aeroflot..... just a simple question.

That I guess will go unanswered......

And no wants to find out if it would be legal or not.....

If you do, the number is (202) 385-4677, that'll be Bruce......
The simple answer is that the rules change from country to country.

In Australia a UAV is not a classification of control systems, but of commercial invoicing in the activity of flying an object. So if it is not for commercial (invoicing) purposes then no operator license is required. The contact for CASA UAV regulations in Australia is Mal Walker CASA number 131 757. Please do some research before you call.

I do recommend the operator be a member of MAAA and FAI however no insurance cover is given to any UAV control device. This is not a requirement to fly using automatic control.
I also recommend that youngsters obtain there bronze wings.

The guys at Monash have very good procedures, as they mention wetlands.
Thanks to the EE department for looking out for all the birds.
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/AEROBO...SE-16-2006.pdf

If a UAV operator adherers to all MAAA rules, Under 400 feet, clear from property
Under 7.5kg GTOW (unless you have a MAAA heavy model permit), stay away from birds and Rookies have at least a bronze pilot ready to take control. Then you are free to experiment and get your logo working.

And for the geek dads this is a great way to get with the kids outdoors. 10 year old Tom
Started at about 5yo with a kitty hawk 12 months later flying an Electra Fun for 2 years then move straight to a Classic thanks to a club member at MARCS in Victoria.
So what has this got to do with UAV’s? glad you asked. More recently curious brothers started playing with “Just Basic” and moved on to PicBasic Pro and wouldn’t you know it can’t find my MElabs programmer any where, I have noticed a flashing PIC16F876a
stuck in a bread board though.

The motto of the story is that if the COA? give you grief move to a better
Bay Area (Melbourne) we could do with all the logo you got!

(zlite……. now that what I call a piece of logo well done flyboys)
Aug 14, 2007, 01:44 AM
Chris Anderson
Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexFlyer
Seriously, call the number I gave you and explain what you are doing and get an opinion. Or better still, get PBS to call on your behalf. What's it going to hurt?

I'd be willing to bet you there are several folks lurking in this thread that could tell you what the response will be but won't say a word.
As I said, we believe that we are flying fully within the regs. We're recreational, not commercial, and pass every other published test (pilot in control, 400 ft, line of sight, etc). But if the FAA wants to come after us anyway for some random reason not enshrined in law, I for one would love to run that story in Wired or anywhere else. "FAA accuses nine-year-old of weaponizing Lego" is a headline that few media would turn down

There are lots of ways to fight the battle for a rational UAV policy. You have yours and I have mine. The important thing is that we're on the same side.
Aug 14, 2007, 02:53 AM
Electronics Engineer
Aeroflot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlite
As I said, we believe that we are flying fully within the regs. We're recreational, not commercial, and pass every other published test (pilot in control, 400 ft, line of sight, etc). But if the FAA wants to come after us anyway for some random reason not enshrined in law, I for one would love to run that story in Wired or anywhere else. "FAA accuses nine-year-old of weaponizing Lego" is a headline that few media would turn down

There are lots of ways to fight the battle for a rational UAV policy. You have yours and I have mine. The important thing is that we're on the same side.
Zlite I agree I don’t think there is a problem.
I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA COA or whatever are actually supportive. The Australian CASA is especially when they see what you are trying to do, if it involves education the answer is usually yes.


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