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Aug 03, 2007, 05:14 PM
smoking a buddy box
olivier2's Avatar
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Discussion

2.4Ghz banned in Belgium


Hi,

Decision just fel today August 3rd 2007 : The Belgian Institute for Post and Telecomunications is banning the 2.4Ghz for all RC-applications.
(French link : http://www.rcpilot-online.com/index....dee8b56c582cf2)
(Duch link : http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/phpBB2/...62558&start=15)

This decision is taken due to the fact that the use of this frequency-band by the modellers is not described in the European texts (laws?). It seems that a recent demand has been applied for that but still not agreed for.

It also seems that in Germany some problems are arrizing with official authorizations...
Just found this too :
In Germany, the „Bundesnetzagentur" (organisation of the state) informed that 2,4 GHz RC equipments for aeromodelling will not be allowed. The decree will come to power in July 2008. Radio Control of model aircrafts using this frequency band competes with commercial and political interests mainly because of the strength of the transmitter signal which is necessary to overcome physical disadvantages of the very short waves. from here :
http://www.rcpilot-online.com/index....705&paa=1&zaa=


To be followed...

Olivier
my website : http://users.belgacom.net/TX2TX : buddy box compatibility problems between different brands of transmitters
Last edited by olivier2; Aug 04, 2007 at 04:25 AM.
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Aug 03, 2007, 05:53 PM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
Not true for Germany - on 31. July 2008 version 1.71 of the EN 300328 will go into effect replacing the previous version 1.61. There is a new statement in v1.71 stating:

"Equipment uses a medium access protocol designed to facilitate spectrum sharing with other devices in the wireless network."

This is interpreted by the BNA (Bundesnetzagentur) in two ways:

- Some systems (most notably SpektrumRC and spektrum-based systems like JR) bind to fixed frequencies at startup and staying there so these are not allowed anymore.

- The BNA thinks that EN 300328 only applies to 'networks'. (whatever that is)

Personally I have doubts that the second point holds water. Right above this sentence in the scope of EN300328 the regulation explicitly allows for adhoc systems and the norm does not define any needed infrastrucuture. The most simple form a 'network' are two devices and the regulation does not limit the applications using 2.4 Ghz at all.

Even in the worst case this ban is only limiting future sales of such equipment. 2.4 Ghz rc control equipment already in the hands of the end user and in use under EN 300328 v1.61 will not be affected and may be used on. (Source: DMFV:

http://www.dmfv.de/pages/funk/2,4%20GHz%20Anlagen.htm

)

I suggest you ask the Belgian IPT two questions:

- if this ban of remote control applications also applies for industry controls? Quite some habour and construction equipment is run today over 2.4 Ghz remote controls.

- if industrial 2.4 Ghz process sensor networks and process controls are banned either? Quite some industrial control jobs are done today over 2.4 Ghz (WLAN or BT):

e.g. http://www.schildknecht.info/?navi_id=12&content_id=13

If they are banning these remote control applications too I am sure the Belgian industry will not approve.

Regards

Frank
Aug 03, 2007, 10:20 PM
Registered User
There are certainly some odd "conclusions" there. It would appear that the Spektrum meets the needs to form "add hoc" networks by searching for clear air before coming up. "Channel" hoppers like Futabe seems to
just stamp on the whole band -but not for long. However, the Futabe also FCC qualified its Tx in a receive mode - so what is the real story.

Enquiring minds need to know
Aug 04, 2007, 06:38 AM
Registered User
My quick (uninformed incidentally as I haven't been in Europe for many years)
is one word-------------BUREAUCRATS !

NOT limited to Europe incidentally.
Aug 04, 2007, 07:56 AM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
The whole issue is still kind of muddy, unfortunately.

To meet the spec of the new EN 300328 (after 31. July 2008 in effect in the whole EU) a device must "share" the spectrum during runtime (hop away in case it finds its band suddenly used or hop away all the time), so I was told.

Also all 2.4 Ghz rc controls are certified and sold as 'WLAN' equipment here. This seems to be also reason of problems when regulatory bodies decide that it does not fit in their bureaucratic view of the wireless world. (As you can see in Belgium now)

Futaba FAAST indeed scans the 2.4 Ghz band at TX startup. You can easily test this by running a Bluetooth device like a headset or wireless speakers (A2DP protocol) with heavy BT traffic right beside the FAAST TX. It will then take much longer to go online and the leds on the backside of the T6EX are flashing quite a while before the link is established. I suspect that FAAST scans the band, to make sure the remaining bandwidth is sufficient for the wireless link. Maybe it even does something more sophisticated by checking which parts of the spectrum are congested and limiting the hopping to the unused parts, telling the RX in some control packets.

Regards

Frank
Aug 04, 2007, 08:01 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzfrank
Maybe it even does something more sophisticated by checking which parts of the spectrum are congested and limiting the hopping to the unused parts, telling the RX in some control packets.

Regards

Frank

I thought the FCC (USA obviously) disallowed a selection of frequencies on 'hoppers'. In other words you hop everywhere or not at all.
Aug 04, 2007, 08:20 AM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewasp
I thought the FCC (USA obviously) disallowed a selection of frequencies on 'hoppers'. In other words you hop everywhere or not at all.
Ok, in this case it will not do it, obviously. I only noticed the behaviour of the TX in the vicinity of heavy BT traffic and tried to make sense of it.
Aug 04, 2007, 04:46 PM
Registered User
Sounds possible to me - weird that the FCC filing is silent on that.
Aug 04, 2007, 04:52 PM
Registered User
"To meet the spec of the new EN 300328 (after 31. July 2008 in effect in the whole EU) a device must "share" the spectrum during runtime (hop away in case it finds its band suddenly used or hop away all the time), so I was told."

Which would result in "might is right" since the current user would be required to move away from the next guy to come on? Does this sound crazy or what?
Aug 04, 2007, 06:55 PM
BFMA #13, aka Rogue 13
mongo's Avatar
sounds perfectly euro to me.

glad as hell that they are stuck on the other side of a really big body of water from us, well, with the exception of the canadians, anyway.
Aug 04, 2007, 10:04 PM
most exalted one
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo
sounds perfectly euro to me.

glad as hell that they are stuck on the other side of a really big body of water from us, well, with the exception of the canadians, anyway.
And we're European? And capitalize that Canadian eh!
What then are the Mexicans south of you?
Aug 04, 2007, 10:48 PM
Tree? That's a Tx weed!
crashsiegel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4*60
What then are the Mexicans south of you?
They are NOT south of US.
There are HERE!
Crash
P.S. Planning on two JR 9303 2.4GHz TX with lots of rx's for Xmas. Why 2? My partner in crime (15 yr old son) has made it very clear he gets a 9 channel (for his hotliner) before I do!
Aug 05, 2007, 12:27 AM
BFMA #13, aka Rogue 13
mongo's Avatar
mexicans do not make silly rules for everyone to follow.
they do dabble in socialism, but quickly forget almost all that when they get up here amoungst us.
Aug 05, 2007, 12:37 AM
Suspended Account
Speed is Life's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo
mexicans do not make silly rules for everyone to follow.
they do dabble in socialism, but quickly forget almost all that when they get up here amoungst us.
Correction: They DO make silly rules, just nobody follows them.
Besides that, you can just pay the fine to the Policia on the spot and be done with it
Mar 21, 2008, 12:49 PM
Registered User
For all those guys here in Belgium, we'll have to wait on what is going to be decided on the next CEPT meeting on the 31th of March and April the 1st

see: http://www.flytovml.com/flytovml/

Still crossing my fingers and otherwise I'm moving to the states


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