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Sep 03, 2007, 09:56 AM
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DanT's Avatar
Update, increased elevator , can almost go to 80% throw now.
On my setup elevator stalls out , it's not the throw. It didn't improve with more throw.
Elevator stalls at about half throw on my setup, might be wide cabin stopping airflow?
Might need more surface ?
Flight, using Hacker 20T (clone) with 10x5 apc e prop and TP 1320 3 cell battery.
I did 15 minutes with most at half throttle, some full throttle, volts at end of flight were about 11 volts.
Plane flys well at 17oz. Except elevator stall (on my setup anyways.) If I let plane come in on it on sink rate and then flare very little lands ok.( But not slow by any idea.)
Thinking about adding surface to tail or, going to T tail setup? Hmmmm?

Update, put a 9x6 apc e prop on plane, rpm's at 78 to 7900 , full throttle, pushed it hard most of the flight,( nice speed) 14 minutes about,most of the time 3/4 or better throttle settings. TP 1320 about 10.8 volts at landing.
Impression ,fun at this speed and looks good in air, ( but don't pull to hard on elevator or it will stall it.
Don't thinking about catching this plane,( unless your good at catching LAWN DARTS!)
Last edited by DanT; Sep 03, 2007 at 11:03 AM.
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Sep 03, 2007, 01:07 PM
Registered User
pawnking's Avatar
Hi everyone! I took my Funder 'n Lightning out for a ride. Thanks for a great plane, it's a blast to fly!

Funder 'n Lightning (3 min 47 sec)
Sep 03, 2007, 01:48 PM
Registered User
DanT's Avatar
Update, added 3/8" to elevator, helped very little at speed.
And not at all on landing.
Might go to T tail for fun?
Sep 03, 2007, 02:14 PM
Hack of all trades...
Smooth Spanky's Avatar
Pawnking:
I really liked your video, nice job.

Can you tell what type of setup you're running? Thanks.

Smooth
Sep 03, 2007, 02:44 PM
Registered User
pawnking's Avatar
Smooth.. I have a bm2410-12 brushless motor, Cc 18amp esc,Cc berg7p,3 blue bird 306bb, hex tronik 620 lipo. I used a cf arrow from walmart 3.49, that was a great tip! I will weigh at my shop later to day with my ewolution and sumo. I made two and plan on getting a dog fight video maybe next weekend with my brother.
Sep 03, 2007, 03:18 PM
Lee / RC Enthusiast
YarSmythe's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawnking
Smooth.. I have a bm2410-12 brushless motor, Cc 18amp esc,Cc berg7p,3 blue bird 306bb, hex tronik 620 lipo. I used a cf arrow from walmart 3.49, that was a great tip! I will weigh at my shop later to day with my ewolution and sumo. I made two and plan on getting a dog fight video maybe next weekend with my brother.
Sweet. Thanks for posting the video. That's gonna get more people into building one of these. You seem to have a lot of fun flying her! Can't wait to see the dogfight video! I think you should tie a streamer on each fin on the back.

My three F&L's have been quiet this week. I'm working on a night flying LED plane from scratch. I'll let ya'll know how that goes!

-Lee
Sep 03, 2007, 04:40 PM
Time for another motto!
DanT, instead of a T-tail, you might consider an inverted V-tail. If you program your transmitter for elevons, you could couple the right ailerons to the opposite tail-surface. That will give you a turning moment in the right direction (automatic semi-coordinated turns) and will also improve the responses since the controll surfaces are effectively doubled.
A inverted V-tail is also easier to construct (only two pieces of foam)
Sep 03, 2007, 06:50 PM
Registered User
Well, I built a couple Funder and Lightnings, thanks for the great plans. I did one at 44" wing span, preprinted on Tyvek and applied to the foam. I used a piece of 2" pink foam for the fuse. I have no video of it flying yet as I have to find a new prop adapter that will fit my Himax gearbox, my other motors don't have enough grunt to make it go. I didn't check the auw yet but it's pretty heavy, in the pic you can see the two sockets I had to use to get the cg right.

The other one is standard 35" wing span. It was way too windy to be flying the smaller one today but I didn't have the prop adapter for the big one. So........
Funder and Lightning (0 min 51 sec)


My girlfried is awesome, she wasn't mad or anything. It only took about 10 minutes to hot glue it back up and I'm going out again after dinner, the wind has died down considerably. She did say that when we go back out she wants me to video and she wants to fly though!!

Thanks again for the plans, we're having a lot fo fun, her son loves it too.

Odie
Sep 03, 2007, 07:40 PM
Registered User
DanT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JelleB
DanT, instead of a T-tail, you might consider an inverted V-tail. If you program your transmitter for elevons, you could couple the right ailerons to the opposite tail-surface. That will give you a turning moment in the right direction (automatic semi-coordinated turns) and will also improve the responses since the controll surfaces are effectively doubled.
A inverted V-tail is also easier to construct (only two pieces of foam)
I have never seen a inverted v tail. Does sound very cool. I will have to look into one of those.

I have run my setup for some friends that are not 3D pilots .
And they think my setup flys great? They say I'm just not into planes that don't fly like 3D planes do.
I just think when coming in to land, you should be able to slow this plane down and make it almost stop forward flight before it hits the ground?
Oh well it does look good in the air and my setup is pretty fast they tell me.

To everyone, can you do 10' loops? With my setup I'm lucky if it's 25 to 35' loops.
I was thinking when I first started this plane, it should loop on a dime!
Sep 03, 2007, 08:14 PM
Registered User
praymond's Avatar
Hey Dan, somethings not right, mine will loop inless than 8" on high rates, glide powerless, and dead stick with enough elevator respomse to raise the nose and flop on the grass, very little skidding.

How's your CG ? does it glide pretty flat? Does fly inverted with a little forward stick?

May be I don't understand,when you are cruising at moderate speed, it does 25' loops, no smaller? Will it pull up back to level from inverted?

That's strange, it's such a beauty!!


Paul
Sep 03, 2007, 08:59 PM
Registered User
DanT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by praymond
Hey Dan, somethings not right, mine will loop inless than 8" on high rates, glide powerless, and dead stick with enough elevator respomse to raise the nose and flop on the grass, very little skidding.

How's your CG ? does it glide pretty flat? Does fly inverted with a little forward stick?

May be I don't understand,when you are cruising at moderate speed, it does 25' loops, no smaller? Will it pull up back to level from inverted?

That's strange, it's such a beauty!!


Paul
Hello, I don't think you ment to use 8" or inches? So lets say 8'.
With no power my glide with no up elevator is about( guess)20 to 25 degrees down . I think I'm a little tail heavy, but not bad. When inverted with no forward on stick it wil almost stay level ,( very little climb,nothing I can't live with.) When I'm talking about loops, I'm thinking almost full throttle or 3/4. Question, will it pull up back to level from inverted? Sorry I don't understand ? This one.
Let see,,,, let say,,, at half throttle, easy flyby , if I pull up hard to half stick on elevator stick, it will stall instead of going into a hard loop.
On landing with no power on and no elevator input ,it will sink with it's nose down at say 25 degrees or more and when at about 3' above the ground I can only pull about 1/4 of elevator stick, or just get the nose level but not up or it will stall and drop it's nose and come down to steep and hit it's nose.
It doesn't seem to be able to pop it's nose up above level when already in a down ward dive with no power, I can add power and get the nose to come up over level,, but then I have more speed then I want to land at.
Remember, I'm at 17oz. with TP 1320 battery and bigger motor. I have good power, even when using a small 9x6 apc e prop I have unlimited vertical climb. I like using this small prop for speed, I can make a lot more power if I needed it by going to a 10x 3.8 apc SF prop. I get about 28 oz of thrust using that one, but loos my speed.
Last edited by DanT; Sep 03, 2007 at 09:11 PM.
Sep 03, 2007, 09:45 PM
Registered User
praymond's Avatar
Strange--

When inverted I need a little forward stick or she drop off some, not climb.

In a no power dive, I can loop it from up high.

Are you sure it's not nose heavy?

I also have some rt. and down thrust shimmed
behind the motor mount After trimmed out, is the elevator level with the HS?

Got to be a reason for this!!

Being heavier should only means it won't slow down as much should't it?
Sep 03, 2007, 09:57 PM
Registered User
praymond's Avatar
Dan
"will it pull up back to level from inverted? Sorry I don't understand ? This one"

What I was trying to say is when inverted, can you continue up in a half circle and bring it back to normal (right side up)??

Here's another thought, you said everything is double thickness. Including the top step?

From all I've read here about a KF step, it's height should be 8% of the chord, and 50% of the chord in width. If you have double foam thicknesses, you might have too high a step. Mine LE is made from the fold of FF, only double for the front 50%. Glued over on itself, with a cf spar imbedded froward of the step.


Just a thought, I'm no KF expert for sure. You might ask in the KF wing thread, there are guys who understand it better than me.

Paul
Sep 03, 2007, 10:29 PM
Registered User
DanT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by praymond
Strange--

When inverted I need a little forward stick or she drop off some, not climb.

In a no power dive, I can loop it from up high.

Are you sure it's not nose heavy?

I also have some rt. and down thrust shimmed
behind the motor mount After trimmed out, is the elevator level with the HS?

Got to be a reason for this!!

Being heavier should only means it won't slow down as much should't it?
Hello, when my plane is inverted ,I don't have to use any stick, so, I know it's a little tail heavy IMO, I can live with it. I don't need rt or down. When moving throttle from low setting to full throttle plane track fine. The elevator has some up trim . I would say a click or two from none. I have seen foam plane change there trim before just from heat from sun on them.
Sep 03, 2007, 10:45 PM
Registered User
DanT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by praymond
Strange--

When inverted I need a little forward stick or she drop off some, not climb.

In a no power dive, I can loop it from up high.

Are you sure it's not nose heavy? I don't need any stick at all when inverted.
So no IMO I might be a little tail heavy.

I also have some rt. and down thrust shimmed
behind the motor mount After trimmed out, is the elevator level with the HS?

Got to be a reason for this!!

Being heavier should only means it won't slow down as much should't it?
I don't need any stick when inverted so IMO I'm a little tail heavy (very little)
I don't need any rt or down in motor, plane track strait from low to full throttle. My elevator has one or two clicks up .Very little trim and this will change with heat from sun. My other planes do.


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