Why EPO for slope glider version? - Page 2 - RC Groups
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May 12, 2007, 03:13 PM
Registered User
Well, as someone who flys a parkzone stryker at high speeds and a hundred or so belly landings, I would say I have no problem with this type of foam. You can spray it with any type of spray paint, and it is very durable. My stryker only has scratched paint, and nothing else.

I would still like to see some planes made of the same type of foam that Multiplex uses in it's fun jet. That stuff is really tough and very hard, and fairly lightweight.

The foam GWS uses now is best for detail and looks, and it is light. I however, fail to see all that detail when flying. Also with the brushless motors and lipos being so cheap these days, I don't see weight being a problem.

With all that said, I think GWS would be well served to offer up both types of foam. That way everyone is happy
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May 12, 2007, 05:18 PM
Registered User
kensp's Avatar
On power models as oposed to slope gliders there appears to be two schools of thought. those who build to fly and those who build to crash. As a build to fy advocate I prefer the current lighter foam on the GWS power models.

To diferenciate between the two type of foam in kits, GWS can yery easily put a sticker on the box lid of the kit box that states:-

"EPO FOAM. For slope gliders only. Do not use for power models"

Ken
Last edited by kensp; May 12, 2007 at 05:24 PM.
May 12, 2007, 05:22 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kensp
On power models as oposed to slope gliders there appears to be two schools of thought. those wh build to fly and those who build to crash. As a build to fy advocate i prefer the current lighter foam on the GWS models.

To diferenciate between tho two type of foam in kits GWS can yery easily put a sticker that states "EPO FOAM. For slope gliders only. Do not use for power models" on the box lid.
Ken, get some coffee in you man! The brain seems not yet to be awake! Or at least the connection to your fingers anyway.

Pat
May 12, 2007, 09:02 PM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
If the facts given earlier by Mr Lin remain unchanged there will already be a label on the box that differentiates a kit made in EPO from an otherwise identical one made in EPS, slope glider or not. It will be the price sticker.

I can well understand that most customers buy an S/G version on the basis that it is in truth the "basic kit", not because they have any intention of slope gliding. So "all" GWS have to do is to keep the present S/G version in EPS but maybe call it something else and introduce the premium priced EPO version for those of us who want a stronger foam for Power Scale Soaring which, by the way, is nothing to do with flying to crash but simply because soaring slopes tend not to have a user-friendly landing area and if they do it's normally very limited. The problem is that I don't see the market standing yet another version of the same kit - particularly for a minority customer group, so they will not be widely stocked and if I have to ship a kit with premium priced foam in from overseas then it won't be worth my while. It's only in the last twelve months that we've been able to get an intermittent supply of some of the existing S/G range in the UK.

I've seen an indication from Mr Lin of the price differential, which was considerable, but not of the weight differential. I can't understand why the price differential would be so great. The raw EPS plastic cost component of a kit can't be that great so to greatly affect the retail price the raw cost of EPO would need to be multiples greater. And we can't evaluate the weight penalty without more data.
May 12, 2007, 09:40 PM
A-4 nut!!
skyhawk's Avatar
I agree with you Roger that it's the minoraty of pruchasers that would buy this. However Mr.Lin has said that the power versions are going this way as well. He also said that a test shot of the F-15 resulted in 100g more weight.

That coupled with the higher cost and crappy surface finish will probably keep me from buying any more GWS kits.
May 13, 2007, 12:29 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Bummer..

Maybe Mr. Lin will make these and realize what a bad idea it was and the kits will go back to the good ole' foam they used to be..

I won't be buying any of the "bouncy" airplanes..

I like(d) GWS birds because I could take them and make them look really nice, with minimal effort.. A little WBPU here and there and voila, you have a great looking bird..

These new eppish kits are for the birds..

I guess we can only hope they are a huge flop and Mr. Lin won't make anymore..

As bad as I want a GWS A-4, if it comes out in this stuff, I wouldn't order it..

I also usually bought the slope glider kits, as I put my own power setup in the planes, no use for the 350 motor...

Bummer...

Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com
May 13, 2007, 04:05 AM
admitted user
socaljetflyer's Avatar
The slopers will love epo stuff,all you guys need to take a breath.What about a epo estarter?Sounds like a good idea to me.
May 13, 2007, 06:32 AM
Pickin' an a Flyin'
Wufnu's Avatar
I think I just realized what EPO is, I think I have a cheap Estes EDF jet made out of the stuff. I don't remember it being particularly heavy, but I do remember it being tough as nails though. No problems painting it at all.

Justin
www.CommonSenseRC.com
May 13, 2007, 09:37 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
I doubt there are problems painting it.. However, painting it and having something that looks nice are two different things..

If they keep the EPO to the slope versions only, that would work.. As long as they start selling kits with no motors, etc (weren't those the slopers? )

Mr. Lin has already said the F-15 in EPO gained 100 grams.. That's roughly 3.5oz.. I'm not sure what the AUW is on the 15 , but if it's say 35oz, just the addition of the EPO foam, is a 10% gain.. That's a pretty significant gain, IMO..

Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com
May 13, 2007, 10:00 AM
Pickin' an a Flyin'
Wufnu's Avatar
Why would it be hard to have it look nice? Just sand it smooth? I'll have to destroy the little jet I have here, see what I can do. I don't see why it should be a problem, although being a bit more porous it may require a little bit of primer first.

The 10% may seem like alot but the planes are usually grossly overpowered anyways. It will, of course, increase speed and reduce flight time. I don't crash much but I'd give it 3.5oz just to avoid hangar rash, which makes almost all of my foamies look battle worn. That's the problem with the old stuff, it doesn't have any spring at all. You deform it even the slightest bit and it's there until the end times. Of course, you can fiberglass it, but that just adds even more weight and takes a long time to do.

On the other hand, I don't really care which foam they use. If I'm going to take the time to make it look really nice then I'm going to glass it anyways and if not then it's just another beater/fun plane. I currently have zero really nice planes They all start out nice, though...

Justin
www.CommonSenseRC.com
May 13, 2007, 10:15 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
I could be wrong, have been many times before, if it is the foam I am thinking about, glassing it won't help..

Also, a 10% increase in weight regardless of how overpowered the plane may be, is something I would not be willing to pay extra for.. I usually find ways to take weight out of the kits I get already.. I'm definitely not going to pay to have a heavier bird so that it can "bounce" when it hits the ground..

The EPO planes, from what I gather are heavier, more expensive and won't look as good.. I guess I am just picky about the planes I fly..

I think it comes down to the simple question...

Do we build it to fly or build it to crash??

I have always been a build to fly type guy.. If I crash it hard enough to bust it up, I'll see if it's repairable.. If it is, I'll rebuild.. If it's not, I'll trash it..

Different strokes for different folks I guess..
May 13, 2007, 11:34 AM
Pickin' an a Flyin'
Wufnu's Avatar
Whoa whoa whoa, pay extra? Not me, buddy lol, I'm frugal to my core.

I wasn't talking about bouncing during a crash, I very rarely crash anymore, but the hangar rash is horrible. I'm not saying I want a plane to be bullet proof but if I grab it with a little more pressure than usual I don't want it to put a permanent dent into the foam either. If I drop something small on it it would be nice to not have permanent damage. As it is I can lightly drag a fingernail across it and it will leave a scratch. I don't mean push down, I mean lightly drag.

I won't make up my mind until I get one, I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I hope they can get some test samples out soon.

Justin
www.CommonSenseRC.com
May 13, 2007, 01:48 PM
Seeing the Farside.
Blaze.45's Avatar
Lol, have you ever tried sanding this stuff?! Haha... It's like sanding rubber.
May 13, 2007, 01:57 PM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
If you've ever had an Aero Ace, that's what EPO is. I agree with Blaze, sanding is not an option.

Back in the old days, you had 2 choices from GWS; powered kit or Slope Glider. So you either got it all (kit, motor, landing gear aka "powered kit"), or the Sloper with no power or landing gear (after all, sloper pilots don't use either ).

Now there is the additional choice of No Power System (NPS). It includes everything that comes in a full kit (including motor mounts, fans if EDF and landing gear), just no actual motors. That way you can get a kit cheaper without having to worry about replacing the old brushed motors.

Pat
May 13, 2007, 02:14 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wufnu
Whoa whoa whoa, pay extra? Not me, buddy lol, I'm frugal to my core.

I wasn't talking about bouncing during a crash, I very rarely crash anymore, but the hangar rash is horrible. I'm not saying I want a plane to be bullet proof but if I grab it with a little more pressure than usual I don't want it to put a permanent dent into the foam either. If I drop something small on it it would be nice to not have permanent damage. As it is I can lightly drag a fingernail across it and it will leave a scratch. I don't mean push down, I mean lightly drag.

Justin
www.CommonSenseRC.com
That's my problem, I would get one dent filled in and make 2 more. I felt like a bull calf in a china closet working on my transcargo twin.
Not sure this new foam is the answer though. I got some syrofoam from work that was used for packaging a new desk that looks just like the foam on my plane, weighs about the same but is alot harder. Looked like it would be great for building planes. Wish they used a foam like that.


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