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May 06, 2007, 11:47 PM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Discussion

Another Ivan's Plans Short Solent


Those loyal follwers on LukeZ's terrific build thread of his Short Solent may remember my posting several pics of the Solent I've been working on. Even though Luke has been very happy to let myself and others post their projects in his thread, I feel I should start my own thread...

I hesitate to call this a build thread first cause I'm too lazy to post as often as some of you do with all extremely detailed and informative build logs that are here. Secondly, I've already been working on it since January and only have about a month left to go! Those expecting daily updates will be disappointed...

Anyway, on with the thread. I'll try not to cover anything already covered in Luke's thread.

I started cutting parts in late November and the glue began to flow in late January. It didn't take me that long to cut parts, I was just building my Herr Aquastar in that time.

The build has gone fairly smooth with a few snags being the minor variations in dimensions of Ivan's plans. Some of which were exagerated in the copies I had made at Kinko's for patterns. Anyone taking on a project of this size should be prepared to watch for this out anyway. The parts just don't fall together like a laser cut kit!

The latest pictures show where it's at this week. The light is showing at the end of the tunnel! Currently, I've just finished up putting together the four blade props from regular 2 bladed Master Airscrew 10-7's. This involved notching the front of one and back of the other so they fit together. I used a 7/8" spade drill bit in my drill press to remove the majority of the material. 7/8" is a pretty close fit for the center section of the MA prop. Make sure the prop is perfectly flat before you start removing material. It was necessary to make up small reducers for the prop holes to tighten up the fit on the MP Jet shaft. the reducer for the front prop was made by wrapping a narrow strip of .005 styrene around an appropriate size drill rod and then carefully CAing it into the prop hole. Regular plastic glue would have worked better but I didn't have any. The rear prop hole was larger (MA prop holes are larger at the rear) so I used a leftover Robart wheel adapter and built up to outside of it slightly again with .005 styrene. The props were then balanced and test assembled onto the shafts.
Also necessary was to notch the spinners for the extra blades, not dificult once you have the notches lined up right...

Tomorrow I plan on checking out a local plumbing supply house for some smaller hose clamps for the motor mounts. The current ones I have are regular radiator hose clamps and are quite wide. Plus the worm gear seems huge and overly large for this application. There has to be some smaller ones available...

Hopefully I'll start covering it this week. Will post more pics when I do...

John
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May 07, 2007, 07:22 AM
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Interesting technique with the 4 blade props. Did you static or dyanmic balance the props?

Woody
May 07, 2007, 08:28 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Looks good so far..

Is this the 100" version?
May 07, 2007, 10:41 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Woody,
The props have just been statically balanced at this point. The plan is to see how well they turn and if there's no noticeable vibrations, I'll leave it at that...

Tram,
Yes, this is the Solent 480. 99" actually...


Back working on the Fuse today. Filled in the area where the water rudder was to go, decided on differential steering instead. Cut the plate for the switches and have just epoxied it to the rudder servo.

John
May 07, 2007, 11:43 AM
Registered User
RiBell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman2442
The build has gone fairly smooth with a few snags being the minor variations in dimensions of Ivan's plans. Some of which were exagerated in the copies I had made at Kinko's for patterns. Anyone taking on a project of this size should be prepared to watch for this out anyway. The parts just don't fall together like a laser cut kit!

John
John:
I had the same problem when I was building Ivan's "Sealand" After copying the plans in order to have templates to cut parts. I was finding that the parts didn't fit. So it became a process cut out the pattern then check to see if it fit then cut the balsa part.
I agree that having the plans copied exaggerated this problem; as a friend of mine told me after the fact; the place that I had the plans copied at was aprox 1/4 to 3/8" error on a 90" span wing.
Rick
May 08, 2007, 12:28 AM
Registered User
koal's Avatar
Hi John,

Glad you started the thread, my plans showed up this morning! I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, I hope you'll entertain a few!

I see you're using the MP Jet gearbox. Are you using the power system that Ivan used on his prototype with the brushed motors? I kind of have this "thing" for brushless outrunners, did you give them consideration or should I just stick with the tried and tested power system?

Thanks!
Brad
May 08, 2007, 03:46 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiBell
John:
I had the same problem when I was building Ivan's "Sealand" After copying the plans in order to have templates to cut parts. I was finding that the parts didn't fit. So it became a process cut out the pattern then check to see if it fit then cut the balsa part.
I agree that having the plans copied exaggerated this problem; as a friend of mine told me after the fact; the place that I had the plans copied at was aprox 1/4 to 3/8" error on a 90" span wing.
Rick
Rick,
I wonder if some of the problem could be where Ivan is getting the copies made? Perhaps the same thing is occuring when they run them off...
As I said in Luke's thread, this isn't a knock on Ivan, just something to be aware of. I have the Mars plans also and plan on building it as well, although I may backdate it as the XPB2M...but that's another thread to be...

John
May 08, 2007, 03:51 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by koal
Hi John,

Glad you started the thread, my plans showed up this morning! I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, I hope you'll entertain a few!

I see you're using the MP Jet gearbox. Are you using the power system that Ivan used on his prototype with the brushed motors? I kind of have this "thing" for brushless outrunners, did you give them consideration or should I just stick with the tried and tested power system?

Thanks!
Brad
Brad,
I'll be happy to try to answer any questions. If I can't, somebody here should be able too. Hope you start a thread on yours as well.

As far as the power system is concerned, if you want to spend the extra money, brushless motors would be a good choice. I just didn't want to spring for the 4 ESC's that would be required $$$$.

John
May 08, 2007, 11:34 AM
Registered User
RiBell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman2442
Rick,
I wonder if some of the problem could be where Ivan is getting the copies made? Perhaps the same thing is occuring when they run them off...
As I said in Luke's thread, this isn't a knock on Ivan, just something to be aware of. I have the Mars plans also and plan on building it as well, although I may backdate it as the XPB2M...but that's another thread to be...

John
John:
Don't get me wrong here I wasn't knocking Ivan.
Ivan hand draws his plans; so when he gets them copied, the copy might be just a tiny bit off; then if we copy them; to have a working copy as to not destroy the originals from Ivan and it's a little off to Ivan's copy. By the time the drawing finally gets transferred to balsa; well you get the idea.

Doesn't this fall into the measure twice and cut once category.
Rick
May 08, 2007, 03:49 PM
Registered User
LukeZ's Avatar
John, glad I noticed this one! It almost slipped by me. Your pics look great and you've really been making progress. The end is indeed in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman2442
I wonder if some of the problem could be where Ivan is getting the copies made? Perhaps the same thing is occuring when they run them off...
I think copying doesn't help, either if Ivan does it or the end user again. But the issues I had, particularly with the wing/tail ribs, were not related to copying, or so it seems to me. Rather I think they're simply the result of having plans that are hand-drawn. Specifically I was getting ribs that weren't the right height to match up with the spar; some were too short and some too tall. This has to be an inaccuracy on the plans, not one introduced by copying, as that should scale both pieces equally. Also there is of course the inaccuracy introduced just by cutting the pieces out, and whether you should cut right in the middle of the black line, or on the outside of it, or the inside - there are all kinds of imprecisions involved.

As Rick said, this is definitely a project on which to measure twice, cut once. No doubt that is probably par for the course when scratch-building from any hand-drawn plans. Being aware of it before-hand makes it almost a non-issue, it's when you get a fool like me who's in an all-fired hurry that you work yourself into a corner...



Luke
May 17, 2007, 09:07 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Busy week but figured I'd better update this thread. The differential steering is wired in and working. Got the nose block shaped, baptized in blood, installed and finish sanded. The lower fuse and tip floats have been covered with silkspan and doped. Sorry no pics of these during covering as it was smelly and I was wearing a respirator and just didn't think about grabbing the camera. I found a close match to the grey covering (SIG Aerokote lite) which is the "Do It" hardware primer with a clear overcoat applied later. The fuse has had a couple of coats of primer as of this morning. I'll wet sand again this evening and give it one more coat. Hopefully, I'll have some pics of the grey bottom then.

John
May 28, 2007, 09:15 PM
AMA 670207
Rudderman98's Avatar
Beautiful work John!

I have the same plan as well and can't wait to start on it. Thanks for starting the "99" incher. You've saved me some build time.

You'll enjoy the differential set up. It make manoeverability on water a cinch. works great on the Mars.

Perry
May 31, 2007, 02:27 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudderman98
Beautiful work John!

I have the same plan as well and can't wait to start on it. Thanks for starting the "99" incher. You've saved me some build time.

You'll enjoy the differential set up. It make manoeverability on water a cinch. works great on the Mars.

Perry
Perry,
Thanks for the compliments. Mine is nowhere near as nice as your Mars or Lukes Solent but it should look nice flying...

John
May 31, 2007, 02:48 AM
Student of Ivan
mountainman2442's Avatar
Seeing Lukes terrific Solent fly has restoked the flires to finish my Solent and get her airborne! The fuse and tip floats have been covered in silkspan and Nitrate dope and finished with grey primer and a clear gloss coat. This turned out to be a nice match for the gray SIG Aerokote lite. My finish isn't glass smooth as can be seen in the pics but is acceptable for a "sport scale" plane.

The horizontal stab is just about covered, using Litespan on the bottom as recommended by Ivan so it can "breathe" and dry out better. Unfortunately, Litespan doesn't come in gray so silver was used but since it's the bottom, it's not that noticeable.

The wings and cowlings are covered but I forgot to take pics tonight which is just as well as I'm not very happy with the job I did on the cowlings. Covering the "donut" section of the cowls just wasn't an easy feat and the result came out less than smooth. I may redo them, but what I'd really like to do is take the time and vacuum form some as Perry did with his Mars. Still not sure yet...

More to come...

John
May 31, 2007, 05:52 AM
Wie ein Floh - aber Oho !
Damske's Avatar
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Looks to cool...


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