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Apr 24, 2007, 11:08 PM
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fr4nk1yn's Avatar
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Tape Hinges, What's the catch?


I'm building an E-Starter. I just tried tape hinges to see how they work.
The kind where you tale two pieces, overlap the sticky sides,l place one "hinge" on each side and cross them to attach the control surface.

I used Scotch tape and first stuck it to my shirt so it wasn't permanent.
I was shocked. A beautiful free moving hinge with lots of travel.

So what's the "catch" how come more people aren't using this method?
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Apr 24, 2007, 11:15 PM
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Murocflyer's Avatar
Interesting. Subscribing so I don't miss the answers.

Frank
Apr 24, 2007, 11:57 PM
Reduce the drama...
rick.benjamin's Avatar
That's a fine use! May need to replace periodically should the adhesive age.
I used it till I started using floppy disk material for hinges.
Regards
Rick
Apr 25, 2007, 12:05 AM
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Murocflyer's Avatar
Maybe even a close up photo would be cool!
Apr 25, 2007, 02:46 AM
Registered User
Most people just don't get the simple concept of how it works. Many just don't know about it. The catch to it is the rougher surface left by alternating tape though it is on the back of the wing.

You can pull the control surface hard against the back of the wing and still have a nice flexible hinge with no air bleeding through so less noise and drag. Also if you rip the hinge it can only go as far as your tape is wide so is nice and secure.

I have this setup on my foamy which is now on its 3rd fuse and 4th wing. Same technique used each time and it has never failed.
Apr 25, 2007, 03:02 AM
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fr4nk1yn's Avatar
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Thanks for the replies so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murocflyer
Maybe even a close up photo would be cool!
Here's an instructional photo.
Apr 25, 2007, 06:41 AM
aka: A.Roger Wilfong
gnofliwr's Avatar
I've used this technique with both tape and covering on smaller planes. I've always thought of it as a variation on figure-8 thread hinges. However, on larger planes, I prefer pinned or CA hinges.

Some general comments on the technique...

As has been mentioned, the tape may need to be replaced after time - UV affects a lot of tape.

Also, the adheasive on some tapes quits working at low temperatures. I once had the elevons suddenly part company with the wings on a Zagi when flying at about 30F. I picked up the plane and found the Zagi hinge tape still attached to the wing at only a couple of points. The adheasive was all stuck to the covering, but it was not sticky. I threw the Zagi in the back seat of the warm car and flew another plane for about a 1/2 hour before going home. By the time I got home, the adheasive on the wing had warmed up enough that the wing was stuck to the back seat of the car.

If you hinge the surfaces after covering, the hinges are attached to the covering and not to the structure. The strength of the hinge is dependent on the strength of both the tape bond to the covering and the covering's bond to the structure. This puts the two adheasives in series and like a chain, the weakest link determines the final strength. If you use covering you can get around this by hinging before covering. This bonds the hinge directly to the structure. You can use the same color as the finished scheme, so the hinge disappears. Also, since covering is usually thinner than tape, the hinge will be less visable.

If you do the entire hinge line, you effectively have a sealed hinge line, which is better for control efficiency and flutter control.

- Roger
Apr 25, 2007, 06:57 PM
Zor
Zor
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Tape hinges


I have heard of this before but never used it and did not study the details how it is done.

I am now trying to figure it out. Here is what I do not visualize.
Some one mentioned using scotch tape. Presumably with adhesice on only one side.

I am trying to imagine joining an elevator to a stabilizer.
So we take a piece may be about 2 inches long and stick about half the length to the top of the stab with the sticky side sticking to the stab.

Now the other half goes under the front of the elevator but the sticky side is downward so it cannot stick to the elevator.

Please excuse my stupidity but kindly explain to me how it is done.

The pictures in this thread did not clear my mind.

Zor
Apr 25, 2007, 07:04 PM
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fr4nk1yn's Avatar
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You use 2 pieces of tape, One gets turned and joined to the other, sticky to sticky.

I cut the elevator loose on my Maxi-Pete and tried this. Movement and travel is great, but... First flight this afternoon didn't show much since it was windy, I didn't get to try any "high AA" flying. Next time out did some fast laps around the field. coming out of the turn and into a shallow dive the elevator started fluttering wildly.

Would it be possible to use large strips of tape and make this hinge? That way the entire length would be supported but it would still have the free movement?
Apr 25, 2007, 08:15 PM
Zor
Zor
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiseryQ
You use 2 pieces of tape, One gets turned and joined to the other, sticky to sticky.

I cut the elevator loose on my Maxi-Pete and tried this. Movement and travel is great, but... First flight this afternoon didn't show much since it was windy, I didn't get to try any "high AA" flying. Next time out did some fast laps around the field. coming out of the turn and into a shallow dive the elevator started fluttering wildly.

Would it be possible to use large strips of tape and make this hinge? That way the entire length would be supported but it would still have the free movement?
Zor here below
Thanks for the quick posting but I still do not understand.
Obviously we cannot stick the sticky side to the sticky side of the second piece full length. We would end up with the outer surface all smooth without and sticking area.

Now suppose we stick half the length of one to half the length of the other, we then have in the center one third of the length without any sticking on either side.

This means that we would have no sticking for some distance from the hinge line.

Now if next to this we do the same but opposite we would remove the looseness of the area not sticking.

That is the only way I can think of. I do not really like that.

In the picture the sticking tape could have been only on top with the same results.

I really do not understand what is going on.

Zor
Apr 25, 2007, 09:08 PM
the-plumber
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor
Zor here below
Thanks for the quick posting but I still do not understand.
Go back to post #6 and stare at the graphic attachment a while . . . it's all in the illustration. Left-click on the attachment to get it full size.

Nab 'her' scissors and scotch tape.

Pull off 2" of tape. Cut it in half cross-ways. Lay both halves on the table adhesive side up.

Flip the right hand half upside down (not on the table) and hold it over the left hand half so it overlaps the end about 1".

With the two halves' inner ends overlapped 1" and with the edges aligned, stick 'em together.

You'll have a 1" section in the middle with no adhesive, the 1" on the left will have the adhesive up, the 1" on the left will have the adhesive down.

Now put 'em between two scraps of wood (representing a stab and an elevator) on the model however you like, with the 1" center section where a hinge would be.

Here's the trick : stick the adhesive to whichever part it faces, keeping the non-adhesive section in the gap between the two scraps of wood.

The tape hinge will be on top of one part and on the bottom of the other part, with no adhesive in the actual hinge section.

The next hinge is installed the opposite way, so the individual hinges alternate as shown in the last drawing.

The problem with tape hinges is that they come unstuck over time, even if the covering was super clean before applying the hinges.
Apr 25, 2007, 09:31 PM
Zor
Zor
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by the-plumber
Go back to post #6 and stare at the graphic attachment a while . . . it's all in the illustration. Left-click on the attachment to get it full size.

Nab 'her' scissors and scotch tape.

Pull off 2" of tape. Cut it in half cross-ways. Lay both halves on the table adhesive side up.

Flip the right hand half upside down (not on the table) and hold it over the left hand half so it overlaps the end about 1".

With the two halves' inner ends overlapped 1" and with the edges aligned, stick 'em together.

You'll have a 1" section in the middle with no adhesive, the 1" on the left will have the adhesive up, the 1" on the left will have the adhesive down.

Now put 'em between two scraps of wood (representing a stab and an elevator) on the model however you like, with the 1" center section where a hinge would be.

Here's the trick : stick the adhesive to whichever part it faces, keeping the non-adhesive section in the gap between the two scraps of wood.

The tape hinge will be on top of one part and on the bottom of the other part, with no adhesive in the actual hinge section.

The next hinge is installed the opposite way, so the individual hinges alternate as shown in the last drawing.

The problem with tape hinges is that they come unstuck over time, even if the covering was super clean before applying the hinges.
Hi the-plumber

Thanks for your explanation but I do not see your explanaton to be any different than what I guessed in my posting. Please read my posting again.

In item 6 of the drawing they show a single tape. If that tape was just one piece of tape sticking to the top all the way it would do the same thing. With the shape of the hinged surface drawn, I do not see any reason for going to the bottom at all.

I found that drawing rather confusing.

Now if you read my last posting concerning how many threads we can see, can you help me?

Many thanks

Zor
Last edited by Zor; Apr 25, 2007 at 09:37 PM.
Apr 25, 2007, 09:55 PM
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fr4nk1yn's Avatar
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nm.
Last edited by fr4nk1yn; Apr 25, 2007 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Missed Earlier Post.
Apr 25, 2007, 09:59 PM
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Murocflyer's Avatar
Plumber nailed it on his explanation. Read his post over again and refer back to the drawing, it helped me understand it and I was lost at first also.

Zor, have your Mom or Dad look at the illustration and see if they can explain it real time. A second (or third) pair of eyes never hurt.

Frank
Apr 25, 2007, 10:13 PM
Zor
Zor
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by murocflyer
Plumber nailed it on his explanation. Read his post over again and refer back to the drawing, it helped me understand it and I was lost at first also.

Zor, have your Mom or Dad look at the illustration and see if they can explain it real time. A second (or third) pair of eyes never hurt.

Frank
Hello Frank

I know you mean well

My father died in 1970.
My mother died in 1983.

I now know the complete answer. If you read back you will see that I had guessed the solution in my original posting.

Plumber was kind enough to in effect confirm what I had guessed correctly

No surprise you also were lost at first sight. The drawings are somewhat misleading although no doubt well intentioned.

Thanks for your posting.

Zor


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