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Jan 26, 2008, 07:25 PM
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Trevor_G's Avatar
Fan is very noisy when the two year warantee is up I plan to put a quieter one in.

Overall:

Storage scope very good

Manual well written but poorly structered hence difficult to find what you are looking for.

Ultascope s/w on the PC : not very Ultra in fact rather basic but it is usable. Any post processing of a captured trace needs to be done on the scope before transfer.

USB stick: Data transfer very slow (~ 30Kbps)

LA: Very limited support on PC

On single channel you get 1M samples @ 400 MS/s
On two channel you get 512 samples @ 200 MS/s

There is a transient recorder mode for slow signals that gives a rolling display of slow signals. I have not tried this.

On graininess its an 8 bit adc so this limits resolution and there is no attempt at smoothing between levels. There is an interpolation function built in to the screen but this is designed to smooth on the time axis when you have insufficient samples.

If you want to see some traces (note all 3 screenshots were produced from the same capture which demonstrates the value of a 512K memory):
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1602
Last edited by Trevor_G; Jan 26, 2008 at 07:32 PM.
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Jan 27, 2008, 04:23 AM
Hi Trevor,

Excellent. Thank you for replying.

I'm still in two minds, between the Rigol and the Owon. MCS is advertising the Rigol at 363+VAT so once you've factored in postage then that's some 450. The 60Mhz Owon is 310inc for 60Mhz (and Rapid are just down the road). It's 250MS/sec and 6K depth (small in comparison).

I've managed to find some rear shots of the Owon, these are attached.

Thing is that I'd love the Rigol but it's the small screen and limited LA which is putting me off. The extra price once VAT and P+P (15) are in pushes it up significantly. BigAndy on Page-1 managed 325 so that *could* make it a bit more tempting. 400 on the dot give or take.

I really wanna buy something!!! A friend is describing it as Test Equipment P??n. It's definitely true that the anticipation of buying something is just as good as the buying. The only real downside of the Owon is the STN screen and smaller sample depth.

Q1. Is the Rigol able to display the bytes/words of the LA data?
Q2. Can you rename the D0...D15 signal names?
Q3. Can you trigger based on a byte/word? As in XXXXXXXX100XX111?

Then again I could keep what I have already?; Thurlby LA4800, Hitachi 40Mhz Analogue, Velleman 10Mhz handheld silly thing, and a Rohde & Schwartz LAS5 (1980's) with a built in 20Mhz DSO but only 1K depth, very advanced triggering though.

I just want to stop buying this stuff. And hopefuly get something to replace it all. Hence the Rigol. But it's firmware is coming across as a bit basic?

I've also found this review of the Rigol at Test & Measurement World (a review website) for anyone who is following; Martin Rowe - Rigol Review
Feb 05, 2008, 10:25 AM
Rigol DS1000CD Logic Analyser Functionality
===========================================

1. Introduction
2. Logic Analyser Pod
3. Logic Analyser Pod Pinout Legend
4. Logic Analyser Pod Pinouts
5. Design Consideration

1. Introduction
===============
This document examines and documents the logic analyser of the Rigol DS1022CD oscilloscope. It brings together information which would not be readily available. It reveals that the device uses a completely standard 2.54mm pitch dual row pin header, thus enabling the pod to be connected directly to appropriately designed prototype boards without the use of the individual sprung signal grabbers.


2. Logic Analyser Pod
=====================
The "Active Logic Head" pod which accompanies the Rigol DS1000CD mixed mode oscilloscopes (DSO/LA) is labelled as model number LH1116. It's appearance is white/grey in colour. It only has markings on the front. A power LED is visable which glows green.

Input Z: 100KOhms
Max : +/- 40V
Code:
                      *
                     / \
                    /   \
                 /\/  L  \
                / /  O    \
               / /  G      \
 68 Pin >>>>  / /  I        \
             / /  R          \
            / /               \
           / /          L      \
          / /          E        *
          \/     6    N        /| 
          /     1    N        //*
         /     1    A        ///
        *     1    H        /|/
        |\   H    C        /#/
        * \ L             /#/
         \ \    6        /#/
          \ \  1        /#/
           \ \         /#/  <<<< 2x20 Pin 2.54mm Header
            \ \       /#/
             \ \     /#/
              \ \   /|/
               \ \ ///
                \ *//
                 \|/
                  *
3. Logic Analyser Pod Pinout Legend
===================================
The following legend is printed on the lower topside of the LH1116 pod.
Code:
                   CHANNEL
   +-------------------------------------+
   |                                     |
                               0 1 2 3 4 5
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7         8 9 1 1 1 1 1 1
   D D D D D D D D         D D D D D D D D

   * * * * * * * *         * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   |                                     |
   +------------------+------------------+
                      |
                     GND
                      |
                    +---+ 
                     \ /
                      +
4. Logic Analyser Pod Pinouts
=============================
The male connector used on the DS1000 LA Pod is orientated with the notch towards the bottom of the pod.

The connectors below are viewed when looking face on.
Code:
2x20 Pin 2.54mm Header / Plug (as viewed on LH1116 Pod).

     +------------------------------------------------------------+
   2 | *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *              *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * | 40
   1 | *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * | 39
     +---------------------------+----+---------------------------+
                                 +----+


2x20 Pin 2.54mm Header Socket / Female.

     +------------------------------------------------------------+
  40 | o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o | 2
  39 | o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o | 1
     +----------------------------+--+----------------------------+
                                  +--+

The following are the actual pinouts in relation to the standard header connectors.

                        1 - GND          2 - D0
                        3 - GND          4 - D1
                        5 - GND          6 - D2
                        7 - GND          8 - D3
                        9 - GND         10 - D4
                       11 - GND         12 - D5
                       13 - GND         14 - D6
                       15 - GND         16 - D7
                       17 - GND         18 -
                       19 - GND         20 -
                       21 - GND         22 -
                       23 - GND         24 -
                       25 - GND         26 - D8
                       27 - GND         28 - D9
                       29 - GND         30 - D10
                       31 - GND         32 - D11
                       33 - GND         34 - D12
                       35 - GND         36 - D13
                       37 - GND         38 - D14
                       39 - GND         40 - D15
5. Design Consideration
=======================
When interfacing with the pod's male header connector, it must be pointed out that it is recessed within the pod's case. This has the side effect that the male and female header connector system cannot fully interlock.

The male plug variants (has pins) are only available in PCB fittings. While the female socket variants (has holes) are only available to be crimped onto a 1.27mm flat cable. IF, the female variants were available as PCB fittings then it would be possible to fully interlock with the male connector of the pod.

This is a design consideration. It would appear that there is sufficient travel to allow the connectors to interlock thus establishing an electrical connection. The interlock is however not 100%.

In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't an issue at all.
Last edited by Alison F; May 24, 2008 at 08:30 PM.
Feb 05, 2008, 02:53 PM
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Trevor_G's Avatar
Hi Alison,

Interesting document but I think you may be misleading yourself. IDC (Insulation Displacement Connector) may appear to be a connector type but in fact it is only a technology for connecting wires/cables to a connector.

The connectors you are talking about are actually 2.54mm pitch dual row Pin headers and sockets made by people such as Amp, Harwin and Molex. As a result you will find you can obtain connectors with IDC or crimp terminations for cables and solder pin terminations for pcb's.

Try the Farnell catalogue but look under both the IDC and PCB connector sections and you will see what I mean. This is a case where colloquial use of a term causes a great deal of confusion as a number of the pcb connectors in the Farnell catalogue are incorreclty listed in the IDC section.

Harwin M20 series (Farnell Part 799-2033) would work but there are other options.

Trevor
Feb 05, 2008, 04:25 PM
Hi Trevor,

Actually that's a good point. Thanks for the heads up. It's a similar situation with the DB style connectors too.

I'm now looking at the dual row 2.54mm (0.1in) headers that they have on Rapid. Part # 22-5144. Rapid's just down the road here. http://www.rapidonline.com/.
Code:
20+20 STRAIGHT DOUBLE ROW SOCKET (RC)        22-5144       0.48
The intention will be to match up an etched PCB which is no wider than the header socket itself so that it can go right in. This is all academic though until it's actually done and seen in practice.

Aly

ps. btw yes i did buy the DS1022CD. Firmware 02.03.04. I did some searching and there's some 02.03.16 out there in Russian but I didn't fancy flashing that in case it bricked it. There's a post from one of the Rigol people on Usenet talking about firmware versions and Ultrascope saying that they're developing a new release. So maybe something to look at :-)
Feb 05, 2008, 08:43 PM
Registered User
Trevor_G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison F
ps. btw yes i did buy the DS1022CD. Firmware 02.03.04. I did some searching and there's some 02.03.16 out there in Russian but I didn't fancy flashing that in case it bricked it. There's a post from one of the Rigol people on Usenet talking about firmware versions and Ultrascope saying that they're developing a new release. So maybe something to look at :-)
Your firmware revision numbers made me do a double take so I did a recheck. My DS1022CD delivered last November came with 02.03.17.

Rigol seem to be releasing new versions of Ultrascope on a regular basis. The real question has to be have they got the message about LA support.
Feb 06, 2008, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor_G
Your firmware revision numbers made me do a double take so I did a recheck. My DS1022CD delivered last November came with 02.03.17.

Rigol seem to be releasing new versions of Ultrascope on a regular basis. The real question has to be have they got the message about LA support.
I'm now on 02.03.17. A very helpful guy at Rigol USA sent on the 2MB update file. You put it into the root directory of a USB drive, and it spots the file and asks you if you wish to update.

One thing to be pointed out to anyone reading this. YOU MUST recalibrate the scope after upgrading, else you get all manner of weird and wonderful things happening. The scope will appear not to function properly.

It's the SELF CALIBRATION option in the Utility menu, where you have to disconnect all inputs and perform when at working temperature. It takes a few minutes.

I think that Rigol have got things organised on the support front, MCS (UK) too. Which is excellent.
Feb 06, 2008, 02:55 PM
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bigandy's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi folks,

Sorry I didn't chip in here earlier, it looks like you have sorted out most of the stuff with the Rigol scopes now! Out of interest, do you know what has been changed in the latest firmware? I did have a quick look on the rigol website, but there was no monetion of software updates....

I actually don't use my scope a great deal over the last few months, as I have been using a Tek scope at work instead

Cheers
Andy
Feb 06, 2008, 03:15 PM
Hi Andy,

To be honest there doesn't appear to be any difference at all really, or none that I've noticed in the last few hours.

If anything I would say that the traces are a bit smoother, not entirely sure really. Some of the English translation has been tidied up. Also, when selecting through an option with the function button, it works as you go over it. Where as before say the digital filter, had to be selected to enable it.

I can confirm that the updates that are on this site do work, and are good. http://micromir.ucoz.ru/publ/47-1-0-613 . I applied 02.03.04 to revert it after my 02.03.17 seemed iffy (didn't know about having to recalibrate).

I have the 02.03.17 file here which came from the guy at Rigol USA.

Aly

ps. I'm about to start testing the LA extensively in the next few days so will know more that side. Going to do it with a 30MIPS dsPIC. That's the cruncher here which will decide if it just becomes my DSO, or actually replaces the Thurlby LA4800 8KB. The Thurlby can make up for the smaller memory with advanced triggering/re-triggering setpoints, a sort of scripting language type thing which means you can always eventually get the data that you're trying to capture. So that's where I'm going next with this. :-)
Last edited by Alison F; Feb 07, 2008 at 04:34 AM.
Mar 10, 2008, 03:31 PM
Registered User
I like the specs of the scope and the features so I have been considering the new Rigol VS5102D DSO unit available. Seems to be exactly the same less the screen and a bunch of cash. Real close to pulling the trigger so I would like to get your opinions.
Mar 10, 2008, 06:20 PM
Registered User
Trevor_G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmprestine
I like the specs of the scope and the features so I have been considering the new Rigol VS5102D DSO unit available.
When I was looking at buying a Rigol DSO I was told by the main UK supplier that the VS5000 family had been withdrawn. As a result I purchased a DS1022CD instead.

I am now rather glad I did as it is not just the screen but also the physical controls that are missing. If the software used to control the VS5000 is just Ultrascope ( I am not sure if this is the case but I would be surprised if it was anything else) you will find driving the DSO incredibly difficult. Also Ultrascope does not allow full use of the large capture size. Not helped by the very low speed of the USB ( hopefully the Ethernet I/F on the VS5000 will be faster).

In short even if the VS5000 series is available you would be well advised to check out the effectiveness of the s/w before purchasing. Otherwise shell out the extra for the DS1000 series. It you must save some cash cut back on the bandwidth. Remember in single sweep mode you can't see anything faster than 25MHz. While you can use the full 100MHz in sampling mode this requires the signal under test to be repetitive, stable and with low jitter.

Trevor
May 24, 2008, 04:50 PM
May I ask a question please?

Do your Rigol DS????CD scopes keep on resetting every 5-minutes or so, as in the internal relays inside click?

This is the first time that I've properly been using it day in day out since buying it. The fan is I don't really hear, but this is getting irrating when working on a data logging project. Where you're monitoring over say 10-minutes or so in roll mode, and it resets and dumps the entire trace. Kind of defeats the object.

Not a huge problem, but does anyone elses do this? It's mainly if you notice the relays clicking every 10-minutes or so?

TIA,

Alison
Last edited by Alison F; May 24, 2008 at 08:26 PM.
May 25, 2008, 06:16 AM
Registered User
Trevor_G's Avatar
I have just tried roll mode for the first time and seem to be seeing the same problems. The period does seem to be about 10 mins but not related to the start of the roll mode scan.

I must admit I am not very happy with the way roll mode restarts scans whenever you touch any control. I would have thought it would be better to put the DSO into STOP mode so you can read/save the display before manually restarting the scan.

So this leaves the question is relay clicking the system performing some sort of calibration/zero check. If so is it taking place transparently in other modes but only causing problems in ROLL because of its sensitivity to being reset?






Writing the above made me think so I checked the manual and on the Utilities menu [last page] there is a function Fast-Cal. I have turned it off and roll mode has been running for 20mins [and still running] without a reset!

I love undocumented features
May 25, 2008, 06:31 AM
Pesky Landings!
bigandy's Avatar
Thread OP
Good work Trevor, I have just been trying the same thing, and am seeing the resetting too. I'll try turning off the Fast-Cal this afternoon and see how I go

Cheers
Andy
May 25, 2008, 09:51 AM
Hi Andy/Trevor, thanks for coming back. :-)

Fast Cal... Hang on.. See attachment. Thanks Trevor. :-)

Just did it again within 5-minutes of switching it on while going through the menus. Turning off the option now (will report back in a few hours).

Hasn't done it yet with it off (while preparing this picture).


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