SU 27 - Im new with loads of ?s - Thread also in EDF as i dont know where to post? - RC Groups
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Mar 11, 2007, 05:50 PM
Sukhoi SU27

SU 27 - Im new with loads of ?s - Thread also in EDF as i dont know where to post?

Hello all, i am new to the site and i realy must say there is so much here i dont know where to start.

I have just bought a Hawk EDF as a basic trainer which i will fly about but i have much greater ambition. I am a qualified Glider Pilot, I was a cadet when younger and became Staff at a Gliding School. I have flown a few prop aircraft but mostly on the Grob 103 Viking with over 70hrs, 9 hrs solo. I have also done an AVCE in Engineering and Product Design.

I have loved jets since i was young and the jet that captured my imagination was the SU-27, Im going to be completely honest and say i realy dont know where to start and what options are available...A complete Newbie. U sualy peps come to me as im very into modified cars and tuning.

So, how advanced are the controllers now, can you program transmitters to allow elevators to work as semi-elevons when banking to aid ailerons, or do you simply use a primitive slider system. It would be nice to use Canards on the SU 37 also but i'll start at the bottom of the ladder for now. It would also be very easy to link up vertical axis pivoting of the exhaust with elevators with larger torque servos maybe, Thrust Vectoring is definatley something i will incorporate, i'll just stick with vertical axis for starters.

For starters i want to use 2 x EDF but will eventualy end up with a twin Turbine setup. I want to get familliar before i spend 5k and smash it up. I also love the High AOA style flight of the SU 27 / F 18 / F16, with correct weight and power is this possible? I cant find any Videos of EDF / Turbine setups just pictures.... I love the Wren powered Hawk build threads, especialy the larger scale ones...Respect!

If anyone knows where i can get a large SU 27 or plans so i can start that would be great. Please can someone also explain he disadvantages of Pulse Jets in RC models, there are some cheap self build Pulse jets on ebay, im a strong believer in "you get what you pay for" so what are your ideas? Its seemingly great as this would be great as i love the afterburner effect. Forgive my curiosity but can you gat afterburners on Gas Turbines using a Flame Guard?

As another personal project i want to build a scaled down working Rolls Royce Pegassus engine, for now though, the SU27 will keep me busy....
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Mar 11, 2007, 07:44 PM
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theKM's Avatar
The Hawk EDF is your first ever RC plane?... if it is, you should really leave it on the shelf and learn to fly RC with a proper trainer (Slow Stick, Easy Star, etc). They're truly boring, but you need to learn first. I think it's great that you're a qualified glider pilot and all that full-size fun, but it wont help at all in learning to fly RC.

I typically say "get an instructor"... but it may be tough enough to convince you that you need to start out much more boring than the Hawk. Check out the beginner threads, learn, get comfortable, and then get into EDF's and all that kind of fun
Mar 11, 2007, 09:25 PM
Sukhoi SU27
Cheers for the advice bud, iv had a good look around on Youtube etc for vids, Turbines are great.

I was under the impression a EDF Foamy Hawk would be fine to learn on, oops. Well, it was only cheap on ebay so ill just see what happens, i have had a go on a high wing trainer but it was so predictable/slow/boring, that i just assumed id get on ok with the Hawk....

I'll get her up high and discover the flight behavior. Wont go for any fancy flying first time, just simple 45deg bank turns etc, if it goes tits up ill get it on video...thanks for the warning
Mar 12, 2007, 10:13 AM
Registered User
Tom D, I would have to echo km's advice.

I have flown full sized for forty years, 19,000 hours now.
I've taught in almost everything from J-3's to jets.

While full sized training will help in reconizing stalls and controls, it really won't help much in learning basic R/C flight.

In trainers it isn't so much low wing vs high wing, or ailerons vs rudder.
It is light wing loading and slow flight speed, vs high speed planes that you lose perspective on quickly.
You need time to see your mistakes and correct them before contacting the ground.

A fast plane in the hands of a bigginer, no matter how talented,usually is a formula for disaster.
Save the fast planes for later, get the basics down with a slow trainer. Then reward yourself with the fast planes when you can anticipate the models next move and your reactions are faster than the models.

Good luck, you've taken the first step in looking for advice, you'll get plenty of good advice here.
Last edited by pd1; Mar 13, 2007 at 09:10 AM.
Mar 12, 2007, 09:26 PM
Sukhoi SU27
Ok guys, thanks.....

I suppose i was a tad arrogant as i was a bit of a hotshot in the real thing, especialy gliders, cant beat a good day soaring and riding the warm air up, lol

The only problem i can see is over responsive controlls, the ailerons are full wing length which is a large controll surface so will give high roll rate so im just going to go nice and slow.....

I dont know how fast it is yet, its only a lil electric thing, i wont go for turbines for a long time yet. I'll video my first flight in the Hawk and we'll see what happens, as i will video it.....If i crash ill be laughing too, its just a first model and if i dont learn to fly with it and simply crash, i will have at least learnt something invaluable and worth 120, not to dive in beyond my depth, lol

Thanks for feedback
Mar 12, 2007, 09:59 PM
3d with an airliner
Francisco1's Avatar
if your looking for some thing fast but good enough to learn how to fly off of look no further, the f-27 c stryker is definately the way to go this was my first 3ch plane 1 month later moved strait to a turmoil flatout. Please follow link and click the where to buy icon:
Mar 12, 2007, 10:08 PM
Registered User
Whew! I'm glad the EDF is at least a foamie, my heart sank when I thought you bought the Schubeler Bae Hawk! But you have SU 27 in your title...
BTW, if you fly every week, for at least an hour in the air each time, you may get to turbine power in say... 5 years. It's that much more advanced.

What EDF is it?
Mar 12, 2007, 10:22 PM
3d with an airliner
Francisco1's Avatar
Btw, welcome to rc groups im sure you'll get used to posting here and finding the things your finding in the forums
Mar 13, 2007, 08:29 AM
Sukhoi SU27
Yes, sorry for the confusion guys, i have brought a "Ready to Fly" Hawk as a Trainer, I am looking to make a SU 27/37 with a Kit and do my own modifications.....But have yet to find a kit that looks as large or detailed as im after. Do any of you guys have links for SU-27/37 kits that are at least 1.0m wing span and of course good quality?

Here is the link for the Hawk on ebay, if it doesnt work type "Radio Controll Hawk" in the search box, thanks for your input guys..
Mar 13, 2007, 12:50 PM
Registered User
The plane that you bought is an ADVANCED level plane. If you intend to fly it as your trainer, make sure that you are in a remote area where there are no people or houses around because that plane can do some serious damage. Although there have been some people who learned to fly on intermediate and advanced level planes, they are the rare exception. Do yourself a favor and buy a good trainer. Learn to fly the trainer, then get a good intermediate plane. When you have mastered the intermediate plane, you will be ready to try out the Hawk.
Mar 13, 2007, 01:34 PM
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theKM's Avatar
There's no "I'll just take it easy" aspect to flying that plane... it'll be just completely unforgiving to incorrect control and wont help you out of a bad situation, it'll happily let you keep messing up all the way to the deck. And you can't simply reduce the throws to make it easier to fly... a plane without enough throw can make it harder. Landing a high speed plane (yup, this is one of them) set up with too little throw is quite hard.

And we're not comparing turbines to "little electric things". It's the configuration of the plane that makes it tough to fly, not what's pushing it along. Add to the fact that you don't yet know how to properly set a plane up, and it's all but over. The first flight of that plane needs to be by someone with experience that knows what an RC plane should do, has the ability to fly with it being out of trim, and be able to make those adjustments. Maiden flights can be taxing for the best of us at times because things do go wrong and only experience will get the plane back on the ground in one piece.

Sure, it'll be fun to blow this thing apart and you have pockets deep enough to no care about it... but honestly, try an easier bird first.

Outside of all this... hope the bird brings you the return on investment you expect.
Mar 13, 2007, 10:14 PM
Sukhoi SU27
Hmmm, judging by the tone of you guys it ooks like this is going to be a messy maiden flight. Hopefully there will be instructions as to where i tune the CoG, ill definatley get out in the open, we have plenty of land and our nearest neighbour is 1km away.

Also i mean no offence by saying "little electric things" i respect that it is an aircraft but my eagerness to progress without the ground work is undeniable, which will result in bits and pieces of Hawk. I have flown a high wing trainer a few times and found it very easy and flight charectaristics were slow and predictable.

My extensive experience in real life i will accept will mean nothing with this model, you guys know what you are talking about so im all ears.

Mind you i have used Microsoft Flight sim with the Tower view before, thats gotta help a bit!!! Ok maybe not........

However if i do pull this off without any crashes and build up some air time. How long realisticaly in your opinions untill i can progress to a larger SU 27 with thrust vectoring etc all incorporated? I have watched some Turbine Crashes on Youtube and its frightening how 5k worth of plane can suddenly go pearshaped

The model comes with a free Sim, i was going to bin that, i may use it now, Once again thanks for your input...I may seem naieve but i just cant wait to get the Hawk up there, and down safely.....
Last edited by Tom D MX3 GS-R; Mar 13, 2007 at 10:21 PM.
Mar 14, 2007, 01:55 AM
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theKM's Avatar
Being eager is not uncommon... but it does have typical outcomes. What usually happens: the learning period never passes fast enough, and they destroy just enough pretty toys that they give up and never complete training. There are also people that simply never get good enough to fly without destroying the pretty planes they really want to fly.

Suggesting docile planes isn't about keeping people bored or whatever... it's about keeping them on a playing field of success long enough that the skills build up. There are circumstances that experience has to teach you, and if you rush training, then you're begging these situations to kill your pretty planes. Like tip-stalling... this will kill a plane... it's just a question of which one.

More advanced models just need the presence of mind that only come with experience. If you can stand to lose any plane you're currently flying, then who cares... go bananas. If you can't stand to lose the Su, then really, you need to put a few planes before it. Jets are fast flying, and unforgiving. Some can stall flat, and can have a list of other unique problems.

As for how long it'll take to learn... typically a couple of months to be competent flying solo, some people take up to a year depending on how much they fly and their abilities. But if you're jumping right into the Hawk, then heck, take out the Su the next session

...actually, an Su with a light wing loading would probably be easier than the Hawk (higher wing, delta stability, the hawk has a higher aspect ratio with with a heavy taper tip, etc etc).
Mar 14, 2007, 07:28 AM
Sukhoi SU27
Thanks - theKM

I think the best thing for me to do is try out the sim, get out in the open and see what happens then....I can recognise stalls and the actions to correct them, have done plenty of aerobatics training also but of course that is in real life, not models....

I will read through any documentaton with the model, and search for tips on flying the Hawk, i'll also record my first flight, and stall / land on a patch with nice long grass.

If i had never come on here i would have simply throttled open and headed skyward most probably with one outcome, i have much more respect now and want to learn, so at least i have a fighting chance if yet any....
Mar 19, 2007, 06:25 AM
Sukhoi SU27
The Hawk is here, just read the booklet but cant say there is much on there, the CD rom provided is more useful.

Its quite windy here today so i will wait for a calm one. Then take it out and taxi it around just to get used to how things respond and only If im confident will i head skyward. The controller also has variable setting for sensitivity.

What would you guys recommend i use? Soft or do i need fast surfaces 1st time, thanks

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