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Dec 29, 2006, 09:26 PM
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Oh no! Not the Bug again.....


After browsing through my archive of old magazine, I came across the Bug construction article in the RCM magazine, which I have long forgotten. It is only after doing search on the RC Groups, I told myself "What have I missed all these years?" I happened to stumble across a link that has the downloadable free plan, and all hell broke loose.

Within a week, I found myself shopping for the raw materials and making the kits. I managed to whop up 6 kits, ready to be built.
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Dec 29, 2006, 09:34 PM
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During the last 2 weeks, my study room had turned into a factory, churning out parts of the airframe every now and then.
Dec 30, 2006, 08:26 AM
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John Gallagher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Yap
I happened to stumble across a link that has the downloadable free plan, and all hell broke loose.
No way there should be a link for a downloadable free plan. Carl Dowdy designed the Bug and only he has the right to offer the plans for free. As far as I know he is still getting a cut when the plans are sold by RCM.
Combined that with the fact that you are manufacturing his design without reimbursing him.

Sorry this just isn't cool.
Dec 30, 2006, 09:48 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Kenny Sharp's Avatar
I wonder if this qualifies as a Chineese knockoff?
Dec 30, 2006, 11:39 AM
Flying IS the hobby
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkens4
I wonder if this qualifies as a Chineese knockoff?
Probably not, I suppose you ask the question based on the originals poster's location below his name...

although a large population of the people in Singapore is of Chinese decent, they account for about only 40% of the population, and since 1959 they have enjoyed being an independent nation, the Republic of Singapore.

So no, probably not…

Jose
Dec 30, 2006, 11:39 AM
Flying IS the hobby
Before this gets out of hand…

I agree with John people who publish their design for money, should be compensated. And maybe Joe was not aware those plans where not for free.

A few years back a friend of mine alerted me to the bug group in Yahoo, I did skim trough it, but since I never had a personal interest on this design never invested much reading time, and only until now that John motions it I learn you must pay for the plans, but I always thought it was a free design. Maybe Joe didn’t know ether,

Joe, maybe you should contact the designer and offer to rein burst him, or buy the plans from RCM as John suggest, but from some posts I was reading a while back, RCM was not responding from people who where interested in buying plans from them… maybe John can elaborate on their status.

Jose
Dec 30, 2006, 11:40 AM
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It's amazing how the thread took a turn and deviated to this state. I think you guys have seriously misunderstood my intention. I apologize for not finishing my story, which is probably why you guys have misunderstood me.

First of all, the plans I got is from an European website, which incidentally was hyperlinked from a thread in this forum. If you just do a search hard enough, you can easily find it as well. You may be right about the credit that should go to Carl Dowdy. Perhaps, if I can get hold of his contact, I can personally consult him whether the website has breach the copyright law. If so, I'd gladly destroy my copy of the plans and order a set proper from RCM, which I often do.

As what you mean by manufacturing, I think that the problem is probably caused by the term 'factory' which I used to describe my study room. First of all, I DO NOT earn a single cent from this project. I am merely making full use of my heaps of scrap balsa and other scrap materials lying in my room, to cut out 6 model 'kit'. Being an avid scratchbuilder, I enjoy building so much that I sometime build models more than what I need to fly, and ended up cheap selling and giving away the surplus to my close friends. Frankly, my overtime pay from my full-time job is enough to pay for a model in just a few hours. I don't need this to earn any extra pocket money.

As the matter of fact, I'm keeping the first model for myself, giving the second to my very close friend and selling the other 4 to other club members at the cost of the material. For a modellor who builds 6 models of a same design for such intention, I think the word 'manufacturing' is highly inappropriate.

In short, I built 6 Bugs out of my scrap balsa pile for the sake of building and not revenue orientated, and have no intention to build any more of these Bugs. Even if someone were to offer me a good price to build him another, I can't even be bothered to do another.

And last but not least, being a Singaporean Chinese, I hope Mr Ken here do use some more appropriate terms.

I'm not as cheapskate as you think.
Last edited by Joe Yap; Dec 30, 2006 at 12:10 PM.
Dec 30, 2006, 11:53 AM
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Hi Jeb,

Thanks for the kind words. In fact I had thought of ordering the plans from RCM, but I had some no so nice experience. I had an order of 5 plans which took a long time for me to find out that they got lost during the shipment. Although they did sent me another set of plans, it took be a more than 2 months from the day I ordered to the day I received the package.

As for the website which posted the freeplans, I didn't even know about it until I clicked on a hyperlink which displayed the redrawn plans of the Bug in tile form.

If someone here can give me Carl's contact, I'll gladly consult him regarding this matter.
Last edited by Joe Yap; Dec 30, 2006 at 12:07 PM.
Dec 30, 2006, 01:47 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Kenny Sharp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Yap
It's amazing how the thread took a turn and deviated to this state. I think you guys have seriously misunderstood my intention. I apologize for not finishing my story, which is probably why you guys have misunderstood me.

First of all, the plans I got is from an European website, which incidentally was hyperlinked from a thread in this forum. If you just do a search hard enough, you can easily find it as well. You may be right about the credit that should go to Carl Dowdy. Perhaps, if I can get hold of his contact, I can personally consult him whether the website has breach the copyright law. If so, I'd gladly destroy my copy of the plans and order a set proper from RCM, which I often do.

As what you mean by manufacturing, I think that the problem is probably caused by the term 'factory' which I used to describe my study room. First of all, I DO NOT earn a single cent from this project. I am merely making full use of my heaps of scrap balsa and other scrap materials lying in my room, to cut out 6 model 'kit'. Being an avid scratchbuilder, I enjoy building so much that I sometime build models more than what I need to fly, and ended up cheap selling and giving away the surplus to my close friends. Frankly, my overtime pay from my full-time job is enough to pay for a model in just a few hours. I don't need this to earn any extra pocket money.

As the matter of fact, I'm keeping the first model for myself, giving the second to my very close friend and selling the other 4 to other club members at the cost of the material. For a modellor who builds 6 models of a same design for such intention, I think the word 'manufacturing' is highly inappropriate.

In short, I built 6 Bugs out of my scrap balsa pile for the sake of building and not revenue orientated, and have no intention to build any more of these Bugs. Even if someone were to offer me a good price to build him another, I can't even be bothered to do another.

And last but not least, being a Singaporean Chinese, I hope Mr Ken here do use some more appropriate terms.

I'm not as cheapskate as you think.
Woops!
Didn't mean to get you rilled up.
To me, it was apparent that my comment was sarcastic. I should have used the icon.
....Sorry...

As far as nationality goes, there's not a prejudice bone in my body, so there's no insult intended. In America, we are becoming desensitized as far as discrimination goes. In my opinion, it doesn't exist anymore. And if it does, it's in very very small pockets of society.....relegated nowadays to prisons and isolated factions.

Sorry for that too.
Dec 30, 2006, 05:34 PM
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John Gallagher's Avatar
I think you should understand that if you are building six gliders, you are manufacturing, even if you are not making a profit. You should be paying for six copies of the plans. This is how it is normally done. Sometimes a designer might give a club a reduced rate for multiple builds.
If you are building one glider and it crashes, noone would question your building a replacement from the plans, but you're building six of them.
Please above all, do not post the download site here. A friend of Carl's is a member of the Bug yahoo group and I have asked there that Carl be contacted about this.

I'm not blaming you. How would you know that the plans download site is not legit. Sometimes the freedom of the internet is too free.

Sorry if I'm sounding like the plans police, but I've enjoyed flying the Bug a great deal and feel a loyalty to the design. That's why I started the Bug yahoo group.
Last edited by John Gallagher; Dec 30, 2006 at 05:42 PM.
Dec 30, 2006, 06:03 PM
Flying IS the hobby
John, your loyalty is commendable, but probably it would be best if those decisions are left to the designer. I am sure Mr. Dowdy and Mr. Yap can work this out between themselves and RCM with out having the entire R/C community involvoed.... I am sure this could have been fixed with a private PM to Mr. Yap.

Joe, I think your post can do much to bring more notoriety to the Bug, don't be discourage and keep posting your progress, I am sure you and Mr. Dowdy will work this out.

Jose

P.S. John, maybe it would be a good idea to add a disclaimer to the Yahoo page, since there isn't anything on that home page that talks about the cost of plans. I was under the impression they were free.

"Description
Scratch builders discussion group on building and flying the Carl Dowdy designed Bug Hand Launch Glider that appeared in the June 2001 issue of Radio Control Modeler magazine (RCM plan #1297). "
Last edited by jeb; Dec 30, 2006 at 07:45 PM. Reason: them self = themselves
Dec 30, 2006, 06:17 PM
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John Gallagher's Avatar
jeb,
I think the fact that it says 'RCM plan #1297' would be a pretty good hint that the plans need to be purchased, but I could add to this description.
Unfortunately, I don't think Carl is an active member of RCGroups, so it will be a while before he can be contacted.
Dec 30, 2006, 07:16 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkens4
Woops!
Didn't mean to get you rilled up.
To me, it was apparent that my comment was sarcastic. I should have used the icon.
....Sorry...

As far as nationality goes, there's not a prejudice bone in my body, so there's no insult intended. In America, we are becoming desensitized as far as discrimination goes. In my opinion, it doesn't exist anymore. And if it does, it's in very very small pockets of society.....relegated nowadays to prisons and isolated factions.

Sorry for that too.
Thanks for the clarification. Apology accepted.
Dec 30, 2006, 07:30 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Gallagher
I think you should understand that if you are building six gliders, you are manufacturing, even if you are not making a profit. You should be paying for six copies of the plans. This is how it is normally done. Sometimes a designer might give a club a reduced rate for multiple builds.
If you are building one glider and it crashes, noone would question your building a replacement from the plans, but you're building six of them.
Please above all, do not post the download site here. A friend of Carl's is a member of the Bug yahoo group and I have asked there that Carl be contacted about this.

I'm not blaming you. How would you know that the plans download site is not legit. Sometimes the freedom of the internet is too free.

Sorry if I'm sounding like the plans police, but I've enjoyed flying the Bug a great deal and feel a loyalty to the design. That's why I started the Bug yahoo group.
I'm sorry, I'm not too sure about your first statement here. If it's true, I'd rather pay Carl to build me six models instead. I do not have any monetary gain and I don't build them in large numbers and advertise for business, is there still a violation? Is there any written article which indicated so? I like to know more about this. If what you say is right, I'll hold on to all my 6 models and hang them on my Christmas tree. The last thing I want is to build my models for fun and ended up having to pay somebody even if I don't earn a singe cent. I'll go bust in no time.

And I agree with you. I do not post the download site here at all. You may want to tell the same to the rest who did it on other post.

How would I know whether the free download are legit? I have paid in full for MotoCalc and similar programemes. They all have declaration page that one has to click "I agree" after reading all the lengthy composition. If you click on to a link that leads you directly to a plan, it's pretty contraversal. That's is also why I'll prefer the designer himself to clarify this.

Thank you anyway, I'm still waiting to get his contacts.
Dec 30, 2006, 07:45 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Kenny Sharp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Yap
Thanks for the clarification. Apology accepted.
Thanks.


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