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Aug 19, 2012, 02:29 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Nice link Dereck! He did a good job of the build thread.

Who knows it might even be possible to make a sea-plane based on this..
I was thinking of a seaplane like that, where the lower wing of the bi-plane is replaced by sponsons. I guess that would suggest that the canard wing should be smaller, or the main wing bigger. Might work!

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Aug 19, 2012, 03:54 AM
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Trevorh's Avatar
Sounds like the first model sea cucumber isn't far away!
Aug 19, 2012, 01:34 PM
Visitor from Reality
Originally Posted by Trevorh
Sounds like the first model sea cucumber isn't far away!
That would be a novel model.

Idle thought, not exactly canardly... Doug was renowned for dreaming up models most of us would only have in nightmares! Imagine a diesel powered low winged semi-scale twin with engine cut-offs that would kill the running engine when one cut and a semi-scale rubber powered twin with four fuselage mounted rubber motors running into a nose end gearbox that drove the props via lots of bits of carefully bent piano/music wire. Both were built with no lathes or similar machining in sight either.

At which point, a free flight biplane canard looks very ordinary...

Looking forward to the resurgence of the Cucumber indeed.

Aug 26, 2012, 06:14 PM
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Hi All, I tested my flying wing with canard replaced by an inverted LE (flat bevel) on the wide forebody (30% of total wingspan) of the center section and got very good stability, even IGE.
Aug 26, 2012, 07:36 PM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
If I interpret you correctly, that results in a reflexed airfoil, with the reflexed portion being about the last 95% of the chord. Noot terribly efficient, but it does result in an concave-upwards camber line, and a positive aerodynamic pitching moment.
Aug 26, 2012, 09:58 PM
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Reflex on the nose if there is such a thing. I had a canard on it but started thinking of experimenting with a flat bevel on the underside of the LE to act as up (canard)elevator. The entire model is a T shaped flying with the outer wings swept deltas and inner wing ar of .3 sticking forward as a forebody. The inner wing should be at a higher incidence but untill I build next model I thought I would try the bevel which in effect makes it an inverted airfoil. I hope I explained clearly
Aug 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
Registered User
Correction ' T shaped flying wing'
Aug 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
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My idea is contrary to logic because the flying machine I am designing needs to be inefficient OGE, to remain in IMO regs. Today at high speed it remained stable just 12" (about 1/3 wingspan) off the ground. In fact it was very nose heavy and would descend OGE even with full up trim but yet IGE would climb back OGE untill I trimmed down a bit. My goal is to adjust cg and trim to maintain about 1 wingspan height.
Aug 27, 2012, 02:26 PM
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sorry about poor quality...

take off and level hands off elevons, climbed it for stall test, dropped her nose after i cut power. released sticks after nose dropped and then pulled up and added power. i think she ran out of eleveator before she stalled.

interestingly i moved cg back and although still nose heavy OGE she actually felt a little TAIL heavy IGE, not as solid and smooth as yesterday.
Aug 28, 2012, 05:10 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar

Professor Ann Dowling

I've just been listening to a really interesting program about the engineer behind this project to design a silent aeroplane.

BBC: The Life Scientific Let me recommend it - fascinating. She is "Professor Dame Ann Dowling, head of Engineering at Cambridge University and one of the UK's top 10 women scientists and engineers."


PS Here's a link to the 4-view. The plane was designated SAX-40. Not quite a canard, but it looks an interesting project.
The airframe makes use of a novel centre-body shape with leading edge carving. This balances the aerodynamic forces without the need for a tail, and enables an optimal wing design with an elliptical lift distribution and low cruise drag.
Last edited by nickchud; Aug 29, 2012 at 10:17 AM.
Aug 28, 2012, 11:45 PM
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Thanks Nick, she's gr8.
Aug 29, 2012, 06:30 PM
Registered User
The side view makes it look like the center is an inverted airfoil. That would make it stable without a tail. Also the The forebody mean chord line would be at a higher incidence than the wings and also act as a canard. My model became stable without a tail when I introduced negative camber at the LE of the forebody.
Aug 30, 2012, 07:23 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
I've been Googling around and searching for SAX-40 without finding any previous efforts to build a flying model of it.

I think I could make those shapes out of Depron, with the aid of a rolling pin and by cutting out some wedges to make 3-D curves. As you say "The side view makes it look like the center is an inverted airfoil." or just a fat belly . What's going on with that lip around the forebody? It's a bit difficult to see from the diagrams just how big it is and what angles. Technically speaking, could that lip be called a canard?

A lesson I have learnt the hard way is to be sure that those wings will be rigid.

Aug 30, 2012, 01:31 PM
Registered User
Very interesting.
The bottom of the center looks like an inverted airfoil but the lip (strake) joining the wing/fuse together with the nose and top of fuse looks cambered and at a lower incidence than wing. The lower incidence may not create much lift/drag in cruise but at higher AOA, like on approach, may contribute much lift for a lower app speed.

If the forebody stabilisies the aircraft and produces lift we may venture to say it is a canard.

My 2 cents...
Aug 30, 2012, 04:00 PM
Registered User
Great observations Nick and captarmour, I was thinking the same as you. On modern aircraft, the wings are moving rearward to replace horizontal stabs and extend forward to replace canards. High aspect ratio type wings seem to be a thing of the past. My recent thoughts have been on trying to locate a single motor at the center of the fuselage at the CG point with a low rear wing and a high 50% canard.
It will require a kv of around 2200 and a prop about 4.5 inch diameter.

Captarmour, It would be great to see a picture of your model which was in the video.


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