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Dec 12, 2006, 09:02 AM
Flashmeister Aviation Inc
MrFlash's Avatar
Just like Si says , its definately a rudder job to keep it flat. If you feel the wings banking into the turn its not uncommon to use oposite aileron to the turn to keep it dead flat . Ie if your turning flat left , use left rudder and right aileron .

To try and reduce this effect as much as possible during the build, try and keep the heavier parts of the RC gear as near to the centre (thrustline) as possible and keep anything fat a distance of the c/l as light as possible (like the wheels!!) either that or keep the weight distributed above and below the c/l. Dont forget its a combination of weight distribution and aerodynamics to keep this roll as little as possible. If you think your plane rolls too much on rudder only, try slightly altering the shape of the rudder to increase / decrease the amount of air it dispaces in relation to the centrline. Just try adding some card trim tabs as an experiment , but dont forget these effects change as the flying speed varies and the prop wash over the control surfaces change as you accelerate / deceletrate. In an ideal world a rudder only turn would produce a dead flat turn...in practice it hardly ever happens, but its fun to try and get it as close as possible.

On one of the vids I think there is a spiral climb thats fairly similar to achive as a dead flat turn , go into into it slowly then bags of rudder and up and just use opposite aileron to keep the wings level as the speed increases and chases its tail. Hopefully we'll have a few more vids up soon as we get some time on it but we're both in similar positions of having a few hours every month for indoor flying.

The good thing with this foamy is its so slow its great for indoor (and outdoor) practice in a small space....and tweak to get your building and aerodynamics spot on.
Last edited by MrFlash; Dec 12, 2006 at 11:33 AM.
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Dec 12, 2006, 01:15 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by firetrappe
Thanks SC53! I wish I could fly well enough to show it off to it's full potential (i've only been flying powered planes for 6 months ). I use a lot of rudder control when flying indoors, it keeps the turns flat and the speed down. The rudder on the Infi is pretty big, so only small amounts are needed to swing it round. It flys as well inverted as it does the right way up, i've just got to train my brain to cope with the rudder controls reversing when inverted so I can do it


Si.
THX SI! When (not if ) I get one built, I'll just to have to learn how to fly a foamie at a higher altitude till I get get good enough for close to the ground. Now all I have to do ,Is a search all my saved web pages for a US supplier of foam
Dana
Dec 12, 2006, 01:24 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlash
Just like Si says , its definately a rudder job to keep it flat. If you feel the wings banking into the turn its not uncommon to use oposite aileron to the turn to keep it dead flat . Ie if your turning flat left , use left rudder and right aileron .

To try and reduce this effect as much as possible during the build, try and keep the heavier parts of the RC gear as near to the centre (thrustline) as possible and keep anything fat a distance of the c/l as light as possible (like the wheels!!) either that or keep the weight distributed above and below the c/l. Dont forget its a combination of weight distribution and aerodynamics to keep this roll as little as possible. If you think your plane rolls too much on rudder only, try slightly altering the shape of the rudder to increase / decrease the amount of air it dispaces in relation to the centrline. Just try adding some card trim tabs as an experiment , but dont forget these effects change as the flying speed varies and the prop wash over the control surfaces change as you accelerate / deceletrate. In an ideal world a rudder only turn would produce a dead flat turn...in practice it hardly ever happens, but its fun to try and get it as close as possible.

On one of the vids I think there is a spiral climb thats fairly similar to achive as a dead flat turn , go into into it slowly then bags of rudder and up and just use opposite aileron to keep the wings level as the speed increases and chases its tail. Hopefully we'll have a few more vids up soon as we get some time on it but we're both in similar positions of having a few hours every month for indoor flying.

The good thing with this foamy is its so slow its great for indoor (and outdoor) practice in a small space....and tweak to get your building and aerodynamics spot on.
MrFlash
I am definety going to have to practice up high for awhile ! I haven't flown a bipe for more years than I want to remember lol. There is so many planes that I want to build, that I am just going to have to make a decision(soon as I get some Depron and EPP) and start building !
I was watching videos of your Ultimate again today, that is one of my favorites too.
thx for the help guys, it's very appreciated !
dana
Dec 12, 2006, 01:43 PM
Crash & Burn
rmgmag's Avatar
You can get depron at www.depronusa.com and I think that you can get epp at www.slowfly.com you can also get depron at www.rcfoam.com
Dec 12, 2006, 01:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgmag
You can get depron at www.depronusa.com and I think that you can get epp at www.slowfly.com you can also get depron at www.rcfoam.com
Thank you RM! ! Not I won't have to look an hour for the links ! I get paid tommorrow too oops, Thursday lol
Dec 12, 2006, 01:57 PM
I used to be all thumbs...
NumbSkull's Avatar
I think Slowfly.com is out of EPP until the end of the week. I picked some up from Steve, and he was worried as to if he had enough to cover the order, however, I think Slowfly.com is the most affordable, and Steve does a great job to make his customers happy.

I'm not sure if the other two places carry EPP. You could probably get by with Depron, but I don't trust my flying to depron just yet. I need the EPP so that when I'm bouncing off the walls in the gym, I can keep flying.
Dec 12, 2006, 03:56 PM
Build 2 Bounce!
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by NumbSkull
....I need the EPP so that when I'm bouncing off the walls in the gym, I can keep flying.
I know what you mean. I had 3 collisions with hard surfaces at the weekend when we were filming . I think if i'd used depron then the plane may well be in the trash now!

Just so you can all see what I mean, i've buried my pride and put a short clip of the 'outtakes' together. The pic below shows the damage to the model caused one of the *cough* 'incidents'. A chipped prop, broken o-ring and a crack in the side of the fus. See if you can work out which of the three mishaps caused the damage . Apart from the damage below, the rest of the plane was fine and perfectly flyable.

Video here : https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...mentid=1096617

Enjoy
Si.
Dec 12, 2006, 04:12 PM
I used to be all thumbs...
NumbSkull's Avatar
!!!

Well, it's hard to tell.. Not sure if I can see any parts flying off of the plane.. Them first two were pretty hard, but I doubt that last one did any damage..

It's nice to have a plane that your not worried about bouncing here and there. I have plenty of planes I get a bit wild with, but with these little guys, you pick them up, dust them off, and toss hem back out there...
Dec 12, 2006, 04:26 PM
Mike
i12flyrc's Avatar
Flash, do you have plans for the Maniac?
Dec 12, 2006, 04:30 PM
Flashmeister Aviation Inc
MrFlash's Avatar
Nice one Si !!,

Yup , try that with depron and its going home in a bag,

In case anyone hasnt seen the Ultimate thread that Danas talking about ..heres the oops video from it just to show Si and you fellas arnt alone in hitting the deck...soz Si, I told ya it was character building . Like we said, try doing that with depron / FFF / Balsa . Plane had no damage whatsoever

ooops vid (outtakes / crashes )

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hmentid=941392

and the proper one (unfortunately shorter than the outtakes vid ...lol)

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hmentid=940172

If u aint crashing ..u aint trying
Dec 12, 2006, 04:46 PM
I used to be all thumbs...
NumbSkull's Avatar
That's a classic one there!! Great shot of the tail swinging around. Looks like it almost made it to the wings...

Only EPP can pull that stunt off and live to tell about it.
Dec 12, 2006, 05:57 PM
Registered User

thanks


Thanks Firetrappe and MrFlash !
i don't feel so bad now after putting my Wattage Sport Bipe 40 feet up a tree last week
Dec 13, 2006, 04:46 AM
Build 2 Bounce!
Thread OP
Dana, Don't you just hate trees Hope you managed to get it down before the lipo died. Was it climbable or was it a fishing rod job?

At least indoors there are no trees....although the rafters sometimes catch ppl out Luckily we have a 'plane recovery device' at the gym
Dec 13, 2006, 01:06 PM
Nice bipe, I think I may build this to replace my Tensor, that I got from my LHS last week fo $20, when I destroy it. My LHS is now stocking Midwest Cellfoam 88, so I'll use 3mm for the fuse and 6mm for the wings. I fly outside so super light weight is not an issue for me.
Dec 13, 2006, 03:22 PM
Flashmeister Aviation Inc
MrFlash's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by i12flyrc
Flash, do you have plans for the Maniac?
Sorry dude, totally missed yer post , think we posted at the same time

No plan for Maniac plans at the minuite but its basically a mono version of the Infineon using a similar basic outline and near identical contruction.

For the fus , print the Infineon plans then move the canopy forward by 2.75 inches and smooth the fin rudder out a little. The h stab and elevator is a little smaller as well, again just freehand a nice shape just inside the plan outline of the Infineon version.

As for the wing its 34" span x 10" root chord, so just freehand a nice wing shape to those dimentions. The wing L/E starts 4.5" back from the front of the fus (not the front of the motor) and sits directly on the thrustline.

Thats about it really , as long as you dont stray to far off original plans it should fly great. Feel free to ask away if u need more info for either aeros .

Flashmeister Industries Inc


Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead
.. I'll use 3mm for the fuse and 6mm for the wings. I fly outside so super light weight is not an issue for me.
GH , keep it as light as possible if u want it to fly slow, but for outside an ounce or 2 extra will be fine ..even 4 or 5


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