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Dec 04, 2006, 01:36 AM
Registered User
RCDC's Avatar
Rant

I got UNscrewed by a major DLG maker! UPDATE


I want to start by saying that this fairly well known DLG maker has probably delivered on all the direct sales he has made. I will not name names at this point but want to share this story here in hopes that the this guy will feel some pressure to make good on our deal. I am a photographer and have designed some decent web sites including my own: www.davidcasteel.com This fellow and I made a verbal agreement in June to trade web site design for a kit. To be exact he promised me a 4 servo wing, a 2 servo wing, pod, boom and kevlar tail feathers. I spent about 20 hours in design, programming, and posting his site. He contacted me many times to ask photoshop advice so I volunteered time to teach him what I could. He was pleasant to deal with and encouraged my work by talking about how he was planning to build the 4 servo wing. He did not help much when I asked for "content" for the site so I considered it a "work in progress" although the site was mostly finished. In any case, he never offered any critique of the work. Without any warning he called me and told me that he found another guy who was a dedicated web designer who he wanted to work on the site. I did not protest as he offered to send the goods he had promised. Weeks passed and when I asked about the kit he complained that he messed up the bagging of the 4 servo wing. I let several more weeks pass and when I asked him about my kit he said that he "would get to it soon". This was about 3 months ago. Since then we have been through a cycle of my inquiries and his promises to send the kit. I have emails describing how "it will go out this week" or "thursday" or "soon". At some point I offered that I would compromise and receive a standard kit only. In a recent phone conversation he admitted that he did not pay the guy who designed his "new" site because he had issues with the design. I saw this site and can say that it was no better or worse than mine. In the same conversation he said he was "looking at my kit" but said he could not say when he would get around to send it. In any case the "new" site is down and mine is back up! It has been 6 months and the guy never said he would NOT send the kit. He just doesn't do it.
My question to the group:
WHAT WOULD YOU DO ABOUT THIS?
I have documentation of our agreement. I have researched small claims court. My lawyer freind says that he could be charged with "mail fraud".
I do not beleive that "2 wrongs make a right" but I am deeply frustrated
with this situation. You guys are engineers, students, artists, professionals.
How would you feel if you put about 20 hours of your valuable work time into a trade for a DLG kit and the guy made the deal go south?
Your comments are welcome....

Kit has finally arrived: Mar 29 2007. Moral: Barter for big stuff. pay cash for the rest. Get all on paper. Stand your ground. Be humble.
Last edited by RCDC; Mar 31, 2007 at 12:16 PM.
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Dec 04, 2006, 04:01 AM
Chesty
ClimaxPilot's Avatar
Just point him to this thread and see what happens. Give him a week or two to respond and if he doesn't, flame him here.
Dec 04, 2006, 04:59 AM
Promoting Model Aviation...
Murocflyer's Avatar
I'm thinking if he can't get the plane for you, just send him a bill for your time and then use that money to buy something else. That way he doesn't have the "I can't get to it right now" excuse anymore.
Dec 04, 2006, 07:43 AM
Plane dodger
KillerAir's Avatar
There are a few things that you could do. Being a fellow designer that has been doing this for 20 years and being burned a few times myself I can offer this.
1.Invoice him by mail for the work done
2. Follow up and talk to him again about compensation as agreed. Be firm but not abusive. You seem to be curtious so I don't think that will be a problem. Set a time limit as to when payment is to be recieved.
3. Also inform him that if this invoice is not settled you will proceed with legal actions.
4. Being that you are the true owner of the work and no Rights have been transfered to him you can persue legal action under copy right infrigment laws.
5. Obtain a lawyer to send a letter of collection after time period has expired.
6. You may also have the right to a cease and desist action as well as appling a mechanics lean to his property, which can cause lots of trouble if he decides to sell or transfer his business and or home.

Hopefully this guy will man up and pay his debt. Good luck

Killer
Dec 04, 2006, 09:30 AM
Registered User
This topic should be moved into the vendor forum.

Scott
Dec 04, 2006, 09:45 AM
wishes this caption was longe
will_newton's Avatar
Well, just call it stealing, David. Tell him if he doesn't get you the goods, you will go public with his name. He's pretty much gonna get the crap kicked out him online if you do that.

It sounds like you have a solid case against him. He can't complain about your design because he's using it.

Can you contact his ISP and tell them he is illegally using your design?
Dec 04, 2006, 10:42 AM
Registered User
RCDC's Avatar
Scott, I agree that ultimately this is a vendor issue but I am pretty sure that the DLG community does not follow it and it is very important to me to have a concesus from our community. I will move it at some point but please allow this to be viewed a bit more. The advice is already helpful.

I have tried all reasonable "deadlines" and "legal threats" and his response in email was:

"Your insane. You really feel what you did as far as effort there really would justify anything in court. LOL you would loose and end up paying my expenses. Not worth a dime over 200$, And you know it. The Judge will compare it to available stuff comercially and your story will be looking like hi- way robery. By the way you offered the service, so the fact that you did not end up following through is on your head not mine. In my view you are doing well to get what I do send you which is a darn nice kit. I'm the one getting screwed, so if you want to air the laundry go for it.
Latr,"

and

"Threatening me will in no way get it done David. You do what you must."
Old Dec 04, 2006, 11:22 AM
tonym
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Offensive content (Profanity). It is temporarily hidden while tonym edits it.
Dec 04, 2006, 12:20 PM
Womb Drifter
Phiber Optik's Avatar
If he was in some way dissatisfied with the quality or substance of your work, a compromise payment of some sort is in order. Business ventures usually require some level of risk between both parties.

You implied the site was partially finished ("A work in progress") apparently awaiting more content from the owner.

I think this is where your problem lies. I believe he may have thought you abondoned work on his site and left it partially finished. Therefore he sought out another web designer to complete his site. However, any arrangements with this new designer seem irrelevant to your matter.

Apparently there is some miscommunication within your deal as to what he expected in quality, quantity and time frame and what you actually provided.

Other than principle, I think court would be a waste of time for both of you to settle this. You feel you are being ripped-off, and he feels the same way.

I would try to settle it within the confines of your original agreement. Invoicing him is only going to be useful unless you plan to go to court.
If not, an invoice will only aggravate him further.

I would call him on the telephone (forget e-mail-it's too impersonal) and ask him exactly what does he WANT from you to make good on the original deal.

If he doesn't want to continue the deal any further, ask him what he honestly feels the current work IS worth....(A wing, a pod, bagged tail group, etc.) and make clear arrangements to recieve it.

If you can settle it with a piece of a DLG and walk away, I think you'd be ahead of the game and you both may be satisfied.

If he doesn't follow through on an honest re-negotiation, I'd name names and post the outcome here and then move on.
Last edited by wrightknuckles; Dec 04, 2006 at 12:36 PM.
Dec 04, 2006, 12:55 PM
Registered User
Wind Shadow's Avatar

Tell us!


My 2 cents worth is this....if he renigs on his part, TELL us who he is.
After losing out on a few sales, and becoming "dirt" in the HLG community, maybe he will think twice about lying to folks.
That may or may not get you the deal as promised,(sorry!) but you may save someone else's butt from losing hard saved cash to this bozo.

The last thing needed in a small cottage industry like ours, is any more crooks.


Hope you do get what you were promised though......

Wind Shadow
Dec 04, 2006, 01:20 PM
Formerly Screamin' Eagle
Random Guy's Avatar
Based on the emails you posted, I suggest you out the guy RIGHT NOW. I wouldn't want to send a penny of my money to someone who comports themselves in that way.
Latest blog entry: Photos
Dec 04, 2006, 01:25 PM
Registered User
RCDC's Avatar
I am not prepared to out the guy yet because I beleive he has serviced the community well. His product is top notch too. If he does not get off his backside and send what he promised then I will publish his name. We did come to a compromise (minus the 4 servo wing) although he never actually complained about anything. He simply replaced me. I asked him on many occasions for content and the site was essentially finished. To make matters worse since he reposted the site it has lost many of the javascript functions so the rollovers and some formatting are messed up so now it looks really bad. Anyway, here is a quote from an email dated Nov 8 2006:
"I will send it Thursday or Friday Evening. I will send you a tracking number."
Sheesh.
Dec 04, 2006, 01:26 PM
Yes..ok..maybe..lol.....
The suspense is killing me!
Dec 04, 2006, 01:38 PM
Red Merle ALES VII SJ
Curtis Suter's Avatar
You talked with a Lawyer, what are you expecting to get here?

Don't talk to us, talk to the man and give an ultimatun/time frame then do as you wish. It's up to you the hassle you think you're due for 20 hours work.

Personally, this thread should be deleted as it is personal bartering and not how someone delivers to a customer.

I made a spreadsheet for model airplane design and bet I have 100 hours in it, soon I'll put an article up for everyone to read for FREE! You're only out your time and a promise.

Curtis
Montana
Dec 04, 2006, 01:52 PM
__Jackass Savant__
theBOZman's Avatar
This is some useful info regarding copyright law.

http://www.rightsforartists.com/copyright.html

Completed website or not, if he is using or in posession of your work without your written concent, he is at fault. If you were an employee while creating the site, then it's his property.

Boz


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