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Aug 05, 2007, 09:32 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Looks like they want to go camping

Mine love it... Sometimes one will get left home, and it's upset when we get back

Draws a great crowd at the CG Got a standing ovation from 5-6 kids last night
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Aug 06, 2007, 05:42 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Skotmans' problem with the blue motor was found to be a loose grub screw , shaft spinning almost free in the stator... quick fix , and he was flying ... something else to check ...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Aug 06, 2007, 10:03 AM
Registered User
skotman's Avatar
I'm going to have to check the other motor when I get home. Forgot to do it last night as I was fighting with the @#$ nose wheel on the cessna kit.

I had it taxing around and went back out to fly later in the day, hit a crack in the road and it popped the steerable nose wheel in. I've got it reinforced now, but not steerable.
Aug 08, 2007, 07:30 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Skot , don't gorilla wrench those grub screws in , the threaded part of the bell is aluminum and easily stripped... then you have to re-tap and find a new bigger grub screw... a little Loctite may do the deed...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Aug 10, 2007, 12:07 AM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin

Question on Diamond Wing Shape


I have a basic question on the Dart wing shape.
What advantage is there to having a diamond shaped wing over a rectangular wing?
As far as I know, the angle on the leading edge is a sweep-back,
which helps with roll stability.
But isn't the angle on the trailing edge a sweep-forward,
which would make the Dart less roll stable?
Thanks.
Aug 10, 2007, 04:13 AM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Good question, but all Darts fly very, very stable, rolling or not rolling. Why? Well, aeronautiacal engineers to this day still can't agree on what makes an airplane fly, but here's my take on the subject............

A sweep back LE creates the same effect as dihedral and the delta wing platforms are impossible to stall, but I'm not sure on the sweep forward TE effect. The delta shaped tail surfaces allows part of the rudder and elevator to be 'seem' at a high angle of attack, so you have complete control at all speeds and angles, if you have lots of thrust and air moving over them. A Dart can hover just like any full house 3D machine......and all this on just rudder and elevator, so something is working right aerodynamically (or not).

Anyways, it all seems to work right. All of the Darts I have build roll almost on their axis. It just takes the right dihedral,a tall rudder and proper balance.

To really get the Dart to perform at it's best, build LIGHT, use a slow turning motor spinning a big prop and with a 2:1 thrust to weight ratio, it flys like no other 3 channel machine and no other three channel machine flys like a Dart.

You will notice that many of the new modern designed competation foamie 3D machines, both mono and bipes, have a tappered LE at the tip for the very same reason.....maximum control at all speeds and angles.

This sorta' answers your question.....I think.

Have fun: Foamin' Frank
Last edited by goldguy; Aug 10, 2007 at 01:50 PM.
Aug 10, 2007, 08:04 AM
Registered User

Agree


Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
...To really get the Dart to perform at it's best, build LIGHT, use a slow turning motor spinning a big prop and with a 2:1 thrust to weight ratio, it flys like no other 3 channel machine and no other three channel machine flys like a Dart.Have fun: Foamin' Frank
I agree with Frank that nothing flys like a Dart.
I've built the standard 26" and the Dart-Xtra which has less taper forward and aft, and is more square ish.

My Xtra flys better for me. It seems to be more nimble. After a month I'm getting a very slow roll down reliably. In the beginning everything was quick with lots of laughing.
John255
Aug 10, 2007, 10:28 AM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
Good question, but all Darts fly very, very stable, rolling or not rolling. Why? Well, aeronautiacal engineers to this day still can't agree on what makes an airplane fly, but here's my take on the subject............

...The delta shaped tail surfaces allows part of the rudder and elevator to be 'seem' at a high angle of attack, so you have complete control at all times and angles, if you have lots of thrust and air moving over them. ...
Maybe that is what the angle on the wing's trailing edge helps with:
it helps keep the wing from blocking airflow to the rudder (and elevator?) at high angles of attack.
I remember reading that with some elevon-type planes, directional control/stability gets weaker at high angles of attack because the wings start blocking the airflow to the rudder and vertical stabilizer.

Thanks.
Aug 10, 2007, 11:32 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
I believe the original Darts wings were triangular to prevent the kiddies from building warps in...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Aug 10, 2007, 02:05 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
I believe the original Darts wings were triangular to prevent the kiddies from building warps in...
Yer correct

Now, if I can just get the damn warp out of this foam wing panel......
Aug 10, 2007, 10:00 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Back-to-Back Triangles are just ironed out elipses

The (almost) eliptical wing (Cub version) flies great, too. The wider tip chord of the Xtra version was to add a bunch of wing area for free, to counter the extra weight of the full fuse

GPW: Rather than a PonderousPorkyPiper, how abouts a 200% Dart-Cub? What the heck!
Aug 11, 2007, 05:55 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
WHOA!!! Great idea!!! But we'll never talk MS into anything less than a PPPP...one of each???
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Aug 11, 2007, 06:12 AM
London Ontario Canada
artlane's Avatar

Dart Cubs Unite~!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
Back-to-Back Triangles are just ironed out elipses

The (almost) eliptical wing (Cub version) flies great, too. The wider tip chord of the Xtra version was to add a bunch of wing area for free, to counter the extra weight of the full fuse

GPW: Rather than a PonderousPorkyPiper, how abouts a 200% Dart-Cub? What the heck!

Oh my gosh, a 200% Dart-Cub, now why didn't I think of that? Since my Dart Cub is a fantastic flyer, with or without dihedral, round or straight LE's and TE's, it's the best thing that ever happened to me... Now my ESPD is gonna take over, fer a while, with it's "round wing 'n tail feathers". And, since UH has so many bargoons, heck, why not build a complete AirFarce with them....
Hey, have fun out there you guys, and do it electrically!!!!!!
Art.
Aug 12, 2007, 03:34 PM
Registered User
madstick cliff's Avatar

Some pics of my dart


Having a great time flying my dart Thought I'd share some pictures. Only mod is the anhedral on the wing tips. FFFFUN!!
Cirrus 4.4 servos
Electrifly 8amp brushless ESC
Potensky 50w motor
Gws 4 ch reciever
300 or 340 3 cell or 2cell 3 is better
LG from a Wattage mad max
Aug 12, 2007, 09:28 PM
Use whatcha got!
msmith's Avatar
Ugh... after today I'm beginning to second guess anything big and slow...

I'll make this as brief as possible... (doubtful...)

My old flying buddy Mark hasn't been on the sticks in 7 or 8 years and I'm bringing him back via electrics and foamies vs. nitro/gas balsa and pylon racers.

He's got one of gpw's old planes, an Me109, and likes the idea of combat. I kept picturing an episode of dogfights where they compare the two airframes etc. b/c while Mark's Me109 was much faster, the darts (Glen's and mine) were much more nimble and could out turn him all day long.

We fly out the packs without more than just a tap and wait for more batteries to finish charging.

A bit later, we go for another round of combat and Mark is in the air first.

If I had realized what he was doing I'd have launched a bit differently, but instead I just gave it about 1/2 throttle and let it climb out slowly... Thats when the Me109 came in from the left @ full throttle and took out 1/2 of my elevator and horizontal stab. Just one quick swoop in and he got the kill. I could still fly, but only turn right so I floundered back to the flight line, landed and was gathering up the dart when I heard him saying that since the darts out-turn the Me109 so well, he figured the only chance he'd get was when I was launching... The dirty fool was actually circling, waiting for me to get airborne just so he could take that one good shot...

The outcome is that the dart has a whole new rear stab, elevator, tail-skid and seems to be as good as the day I got it (thanks again gpw! )

Mark and Jude (Mark's brother) are building darts this week and they simply can't wait until Saturday for more combat...

I just wish I had video of the hit... It was a 'perfect' kill...

-ms
Last edited by msmith; Aug 13, 2007 at 09:07 AM.


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