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Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:32 PM
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Mini-Review

F-16 by Jepe


I am putting the finishing touches on my JePe F-16... Power is a Hacker B50-18S on 18 regular CP 1700 cells, ca 850 Watts. Jepe carbon fan and Jeti 77A opto controller, 63 oz total weight.

<won't let me attach a picture>
Last edited by Herb; Dec 25, 2005 at 02:28 PM.
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Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:34 PM
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Last edited by Herb; Sep 04, 2002 at 08:41 PM.
Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:42 PM
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Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:44 PM
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Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:46 PM
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Geez Herb, kind of ugly, eh? Probably be a dog in the air too!

Daren
Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:54 PM
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Herb: looks great! what is the kv of the b5018s?......gregg
Old Sep 04, 2002, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daren
Geez Herb, kind of ugly, eh? Probably be a dog in the air too!

Daren

Do we know this guy?
Old Sep 04, 2002, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gregg f
Herb: looks great! what is the kv of the b5018s?......gregg
Gregg,
2006 Kv. Looks like fun, eh?

Herb,
Only ~200W per lb.?! Are you going to hand launch it or just let it fly out of your hand?

Daren
Old Sep 04, 2002, 09:23 PM
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thanks Daren!

200w per lb.? i thought Herb was into serious power? .........gregg
Old Sep 04, 2002, 09:33 PM
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F-16


Herb,

What are your bungee plans?? Does jepe have a dolly like their A-4 has??

Vin...
Last edited by Vin; Sep 09, 2002 at 09:44 AM.
Old Sep 04, 2002, 10:58 PM
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F16


Herb, I have the same plane and am about to start work on it. But I bought Jepe's 2.5 turn brushless motor. And I plan to use 16 zapped CP 1700's to test fly and my Kontroniks 3-SL-70-6-18 esc. I wont get 200 watts per pound but I will have a pretty healthy power to weight ratio. What are you going to do for decals to finish the Tbird scheme, Herb. I have been looking for them to fit my plane. And guys I will bungee launch my plane. Herb did you get the one piece rotor for the fan. It looks like you got the composite wings. But my fan sits back farther due to the new intake to allow more cells up front and still be able to CG the plane correctly. Jepe also told me that the new intake is more scale and effecient? Yours looks very sharp. What type of paint did you use?
Thanks Joe
Old Sep 04, 2002, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gregg f
200w per lb.? i thought Herb was into serious power?
S'not a problem.

I'm jealous. I'm only getting ~190W/lb. on my Su-27 at take-off!

Daren
Old Sep 05, 2002, 12:38 PM
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some touch up still needed...


pic
Last edited by Herb; Sep 10, 2002 at 05:53 PM.
Old Sep 05, 2002, 01:04 PM
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gear


Are you guys sure there is no room for a set of 1/2a retracs in the jepe 16?? I have to see one up close some day. I have the jepe A-4 coming and that will have gear, different animal though.

Vin...
Old Sep 05, 2002, 01:54 PM
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Jepe F16


Herb, your Jet looks awesome. Can you please tell me where you got the Thunderbirds decals from? I have been looking for a set and so have had no luck I would appreciate it if you could help me out. Also can you tell me what paint you used?
Thanks Joe


Vin, I am pretty sure that there is no room for a set of Mini Spring airs or I would have installed them. The fan and liner are in the way. Its pretty tight in there. Sorry.
Joe
Old Sep 05, 2002, 02:23 PM
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Gregg,

The Kv of the Hacker B50-18S is as Daren says about 2000. I looked for the 16S & 17S which are slightly hotter, but the special winds are hard to find.

Daren,
That's a lot of power you have there taking into account yours has a LG and mine is a belly flopper .
I went with a colorful scheme for the reasons you can imagine, Steve C's one was still visible (to him) when he was finally making his upwind turns over Miramar...

Vin,
My bungee plans are to use my usual trusty ramp & bungee (see pic below), on a narrow track setting so I won't leave the fins on the ramp.
I don't believe there's space for any type of retracts, the fuse inside is pretty much filled up with ducting & batts.

Joe,
JePe wanted to sell me the spiderfan & integral motor, but I went with the older Jepe fan since I wanted to get my own Hacker motor. The plane has the new ducting. I've done a few CG test and it works out fine. The paint is tamiya acrylics, I don't use anything else. I believe they are a lot lighter than automotive paints.

Steve C,
The wing construction is very similar to the hollow molded tail fin you saw, there's a carbon spar in the wing though.
Last edited by Herb; Sep 05, 2002 at 02:26 PM.
Old Sep 05, 2002, 02:47 PM
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My own JePe fan measurements with Hacker B18S, Jeti Master 77 & CP 1700s:

10 cells 11 V 20 A 220 Watts measured (20k, 28oz?)
12 cells 13 V 24 A 310 Watts computed (23k, 36oz?)
14 cells 15 V 31 A 460 Watts measured (26k, 47oz?)
16 cells 16 V 38 A 600 Watts computed (29k, 55oz?)
18 cells 19 V 46 A 860 Watts measured (32k, 72oz?)
20 cells 21 V 51 A 1070 Watts computed (34k, 85oz?)
22 cells 23 V 56 A 1290 Watts computed (36k, 98oz?)
Last edited by Herb; Sep 10, 2002 at 08:26 PM.
Old Sep 05, 2002, 03:10 PM
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F16


Thanks Herb, do you know if I can remove the Jepe motor from the fan? If Its possible at all. I have looked at it but not real carefully. I don't know if its epoxied in or not.

Thanks For answering my questions. But can you tell me where you got the decals for your plane?? I really need help here as I cant find them anywhere. Did you make your own? If so I don't supposse you have the artwork for them.
Thanks Joe
Old Sep 05, 2002, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
I went with a colorful scheme for the reasons you can imagine, Steve C's one was still visible (to him) when he was finally making his upwind turns over Miramar...
I agree. I only choose the colorful paint jobs. These small jets are hard enough to see without adding camo!

Daren
Old Sep 06, 2002, 02:04 PM
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Re: F16


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Thanks Herb, do you know if I can remove the Jepe motor from the fan? If Its possible at all. ...
I don't believe so, but on the other hand I've never held a SpiderFan. I went with the JePe carbon fan so I could pick my own trusty Hacker B50 motor .

Not to say that JePe's new motors aren't good, I just don't know much about them yet... Don't know in particular what the rigidity & thermal conductivity properties are of the carbon case he's using.

We still have to do some tests to see if it's true that the JePe fan is more efficient than the Schuebeler fan .
Last edited by Herb; Sep 06, 2002 at 02:07 PM.
Old Sep 06, 2002, 02:42 PM
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Btw I have a question for all the Picasso's around here, what masking tape to you use, good enough to prevent bleeding of paint under it?
Old Sep 06, 2002, 02:47 PM
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I tried the "Scotch Magic invisible" tape with success...
Old Sep 06, 2002, 02:48 PM
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Masking tape


Herb, I use the 3 M plastic automotive tan tape. It does not lift or bleed and comes in 1/16 and 1/4 and 1/2 inch sizes. I have them all and you can buy them at any auto paint store and some hardware stores, it tan in color. Works great, you just mask the paint edge with it then use regular painters tape to hold the masking paper.

Herb, can you tell me where you got your decals for your F16?
Please
Thanks Joe
Old Sep 06, 2002, 03:31 PM
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Herb, for me Tamiya masking tape is the best around. I used it on my L-4 Cub for the invasion stripe's, it gave the cleanest/sharpest edge i've ever seen. My two cents
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Old Sep 06, 2002, 05:21 PM
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Herb,

The tape I used is 3M Scotch from the auto paint store, but blue color and 1/8 wide. It made the curves on my -16 just fine.

I also used Tamiya for the red and blue parts. It's so thin and easy to use.

Steve C
Old Sep 06, 2002, 05:31 PM
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3M Tape


I guess that 3M makes more than one type of automotive tape? I have never seen the blue stuff at the auto paint store where I buy my paint, the tan also comes in 1/8 inch, and its easy to get around curves. I think any of the 3M auto tape is the best for painting. I have never had any bleed through. But you do need to burnish the tape down real well. At least thats what I have found.
Joe
Old Sep 06, 2002, 07:00 PM
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Another trick is to spray a light layer of your base color before the color coat. This helps seal the edges which prevents the color from bleeding.

The other tape sounds like the ticket.

Daren
Old Sep 06, 2002, 10:32 PM
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What, nobody uses lowly black electrical tape? I guess you'd have to careful not to pull the paint under it off if you use it.
Old Sep 06, 2002, 10:54 PM
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Tape


Well Ed, I have found that if you pull the 3M tape up and away at an angle to the painted surface you dont have to worry about the base coat coming with it. At least it works for me, thats how I was taught many moons ago I think the 3M tape has just the right amount of tackyness to seal the line but still come off easy.
Its good stuff but it does cost more than other tape but well worth the money I think.
Joe
Old Sep 07, 2002, 03:21 AM
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Herb

The best I've used is the Tamiya masking tape (mentioned above by Stuart) as sold for the plastic kit modellers. It's low tack, so doesn't remove the underlying paint .

To go around sharp curves, you lay a length of it down on a glass sheet, and using a scalpel and metal ruler, cut it into 1/8in wide strips, or narrower if the curve is really tight. Then mask off the curve with one of these strips, then another overlaid on the first one to widen the masking area, then maybe another one or two to widen the masking to about 1/4in., before using full-width tape and newsprint etc to complete the masking for spraying.

By burnishing the Tamiya tape down with the back of a finger nail, you'll find that any slight wrinkles (and they will be only slight) will readily disappear.

I use this method all the time, most recently to produce the radiused corners of the registration letters on my Tiger Moth.

You can also lay the tape down on glass, and progressively overlap it to make, say , a 2in wide area, and then cut out a shaped mask. Versatile stuff.

However, I'll now keep an eye open for the 3M Scotch tape mentioned by Joe and Steve

Gordon
Old Sep 08, 2002, 03:52 PM
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Great work!
Old Sep 09, 2002, 04:12 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions re the masking tape.

Originally I first used 3M artist high quality (or al least high price) masking tape from an art store, which led to bleeding .

Then I switched to 3M vinyl tape which still bled a bit but was able to handle curves better. When I pulled it off it left a gummy residue in some spots ...

Then I went to the LHS and looked for tamiya masking tape, but they had only pactra masking tape. That one masked well, but finally pulled the paint off, & also left a gum residue ...

Finally I found the tamiya one and that seems to work fine, but I am just about done with painting stripes for this month!!!!
Old Sep 09, 2002, 05:48 PM
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External Speed controller


Hi Herb,
I noticed that you have the speed controller mounted on top of the fan unit, is that the way you plan to run it? Is there a specific reason?
Just curious, Bob
Old Sep 09, 2002, 09:11 PM
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F-16 first flight


Had the first flight today at noon, set up the bungee with a narrow 30cm track on the ramp. Set up throws and CG exactly as JePe recomends, namely 200 mm exactly from TE, had to add 1/2 oz of lead in the tail.

Set up expo at 17% (a bit less than JePe recommends), set airbrake at 10% or about 1mm up, added four clicks of up, hit the throttle and stepped on the bungee release.

Off she went howling at ca. 860 Watts, and straight as an arrow. After the first downwind turn reduced the throttle to 1/2, still cruising at more than 100mph, reduced throttle to 1/3, still going 80 mph or so. Added another three clicks of up & one click of right, trimmed out pretty well. Good visibilty too with that white & red...

A few more fast passes, then cut the throttle on the downwind leg, nice wide slow turn into the wind, very smooth & predictable, no need for the airbrake, gradually pull up the nose & spot landing 20 feet next to me... Nice Plane JePe !
Old Sep 09, 2002, 09:25 PM
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yeh!
video at 11?.............gregg
Old Sep 09, 2002, 09:27 PM
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Jepe F16


Congratulations Herb, Believe it or not I am starting mine tomorrow I worked in my shop all day today to get it all organized. So I am ready to build. So the field that you normally fly at was large enough for the plane then Herb? I was concerned about having a place to test fly mine but now that I know theres room down in Costa Mesa thats great. I am glad your flight went off so well.
Joe
Old Sep 09, 2002, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gregg f
yeh! video at 11?.............gregg
No video yet... But we'll shoot some video probably saturday if I can find a willing reliable pilot to fly the thing while I take the video...
Old Sep 09, 2002, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
But we'll shoot some video probably saturday if I can find a willing reliable pilot to fly the thing while I take the video...
Bummer! I'll be winging my way to Catalina Saturday. I'll check in when I get back hopefully see the video.

Daren
Old Sep 09, 2002, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb


No video yet... But we'll shoot some video probably saturday if I can find a willing reliable pilot to fly the thing while I take the video...
i'll make a reservation


.gregg.........
Old Sep 09, 2002, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daren
Bummer! I'll be winging my way to Catalina Saturday. I'll check in when I get back hopefully see the video.

Daren
ah, island of the drop off runway------------------
-----------
Old Sep 09, 2002, 11:12 PM
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Great Herb- Now thats a GREAT description for a flight report. I imagine it did not take much stick pressure to get a reaction from the plane either.

I would say you could blow a few of those Wattage Sabres in the weeds in one single pass.

The worst part is I get to sit in this empty theater holding popcorn until this weekend.

Love that report.


Gordon

ps:If we could get Gregg F some stick time on a Midi sized EDF. We might get him hooked.
Last edited by Plane Crazy; Sep 09, 2002 at 11:15 PM.
Old Sep 09, 2002, 11:29 PM
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Congrats Herb - and JC Sounds like a winner for sure. I better pop some corn for the show too.
Old Sep 09, 2002, 11:51 PM
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Stay Tuned


Ok Guy's, Stay tuned mine will be next I am starting construction on mine tomorrow. So I hope to have it ready for paint by next weekend? So will see if I can pull it off? Herb how long was your actual building time? I am reading my instructions and it seems like allot to do but I don't really think so? Herb or JC did your elevons come already glassed or did you need to glass them? It looks like I need to glass mine. And they did not come in the kit, Jepe had to send them out later. He must of forgot to put them in the box. I don't know because the plane showed up while I was in the hospital. Now I just need someone with a video camera to volunteer to film my first flight?
Joe
Old Sep 09, 2002, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gregg f
ah, island of the drop off runway
Cliffs at both ends and crowned in the middle; what fun!

Daren
Old Sep 10, 2002, 12:16 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plane Crazy


ps:If we could get Gregg F some stick time on a Midi sized EDF. We might get him hooked.
[/QUOTE



Don't start Gordon i'm vulnerable ..........gregg
Old Sep 10, 2002, 12:31 AM
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Catalina


Daren, Catalina is a fun place to land and takeoff from. When I got my PPL I flew there once with my instructor and then once on one of my solos. It was a blast I have flown several types of aircraft to the Island. What are you flying? Have Fun?
Joe

Gregg, cool plane. Who makes the kit? I take it that its a 90mm fanned plane? Looks pretty cool.
Joe
Old Sep 10, 2002, 09:14 AM
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Re: Catalina


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Daren, Catalina is a fun place to land and takeoff from. When I got my PPL I flew there once with my instructor and then once on one of my solos. It was a blast I have flown several types of aircraft to the Island. What are you flying? Have Fun?
Joe

Gregg, cool plane. Who makes the kit? I take it that its a 90mm fanned plane? Looks pretty cool.
Joe
Joe: Schreiner GFK Modell
Old Sep 10, 2002, 11:14 AM
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Re: Catalina


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
What are you flying? Have Fun?
My Dad's Grumman Tiger. There's more pics of the airplane here:

http://www.geocities.com/tiger67bravo/

Daren
Old Sep 10, 2002, 02:05 PM
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Nice. Where do I buy a ticket?

AugustaPower, in the old days all esc's used to be put behind the motor (sensor wires & cooling), now it's no longer necessary. I have seen it done both ways, but in all of my planes they are in the fuse & not in the duct. There are advantages & disadvantages to both setups.

I prefer to have them in the fuse. I can exchange them easily if the need arises just by unplugging a few gold connectors. They don't get exposed to dirt staples sand & dust etc. The motor gets a lot more cooling since there's no esc cone glued to its back. And the battery wires can be made very short, reducing the risk of voltage spikes, power-wire induced glitches & other annoying in-flight events.

Btw Ulf Herder (designer of all WeMoTec HW fans) mounts the esc just ouside the duct for the very same reason:





Some places like EJF will sell you fan motor & esc all in one package, with the esc attached to the back of the motor. It's a very compact setup. The esc gets plenty of cooling, a friend pulls 50+ Amps out of a 40A Jeti controller attached to an HBR40-11S and never had a problem with this setup in six months.
Last edited by Herb; Sep 25, 2002 at 03:30 PM.
Old Sep 10, 2002, 02:12 PM
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Re: Jepe F16


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
... get it all organized. So I am ready to build. ... Joe
Build? There isn't really much to build, this thing is pretty much a high quality arf ... Glue the wings on, glue the servos & fan in, and you'r ready to go - it's actually embarassing how little there is to build (compared to say the K&A MiG-15)...

Oh I forgot, paint the pilot - what the heck does a thunderbird pilot look like oops red helmet not white .

Last edited by Herb; Sep 12, 2002 at 01:05 PM.
Old Sep 10, 2002, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Nice. Where do I buy a ticket?

AugustaPower, in the old days all esc's used to be put behind the motor (sensor wires & cooling), now it's no longer necessary. I have seen it done both ways, but in all of my planes they are in the fuse & not in the duct. There are advantages & disadvantages to both setups.

I prefer to have them in the fuse. I can exchange them easily if the need arises just by unplugging a few gold connectors. They don't get exposed to dirt sand & dust. The motor gets a lot more cooling since there's no esc cone glued to its back. And the battery wires can be made very short, reducing the risk of voltage spikes, power-wire induced glitches & other annoying in-flight events.
I would imagine the the cone helps smooth out the airflow as it passes the stator section. All the best fan units use this cone. Jepe, BVM etc. for this reason. I would be more concerned about the motor injesting sand than the controller. It is good to have choices, just thought I would ask.

In my Vector I have almost a foot of wire from the controller to the batteries and I do not care for this setup. Will have to give this some thought, although I would always use the cone for smooth air flow off the back of the fan unit. In my Jepe F-16 I installed the controller behind the motor in the cone.
Old Sep 10, 2002, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by agustapower

I would imagine the the cone helps smooth out the airflow...
I have used carbon cones in some of my WeMoTec fans. The effect on airflow was completely negligible in terms of turbulence & efficiencies. Aerodynamically the blunt end of the motor creates its own cone. In any case I flew the plane with & without cone and noticed no difference.

WeMoTec claimed a 1/2 oz increase in thrust at best for the HW 609 when using the carbon cone.
Old Sep 10, 2002, 07:47 PM
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Congrats Herb!

I also await the video
Old Sep 11, 2002, 12:12 AM
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Picture


Hi Herb, is that white epoxy glass fuselage standing behind your F16 in one of your pictures in this thread a Jepe Reno Mustang? If so do you know how close the outline of the plane is to a Dago Red? Can it be painted to look sorta scale as a Dago Red?
Thanks Joe
Old Sep 11, 2002, 12:20 AM
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Re: Picture


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
... is that white epoxy glass fuselage a Jepe Reno Mustang? Can it be painted to look sorta scale as a Dago Red? Thanks Joe
Yes it's the JePe Reno Racer with Mega ACn 22/30/3 most likely on 12 cells & robart mechanical retracts. I was supposed to get a P-51D warbird, but instead got some sort of RotoRooter Reno Racer. Someday it will get painted to look more or less like this witch:

More about mine here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...threadid=67260
Last edited by Herb; Dec 02, 2002 at 03:34 PM.
Old Sep 11, 2002, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb


I have used carbon cones in some of my WeMoTec fans. The effect on airflow was completely negligible in terms of turbulence & efficiencies. Aerodynamically the blunt end of the motor creates its own cone. In any case I flew the plane with & without cone and noticed no difference.

WeMoTec claimed a 1/2 oz increase in thrust at best for the HW 609 when using the carbon cone.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll stick with cone as I imagine the designers of these units spent a considerable amount of time developing their respective units and would not go to the trouble of manufacturing these accessories and including them with fan if they did not have a benefit to the overall performance.

Here's a photo of my Roto Finish Racer which was also flown as the Red Baron at Reno.
Old Sep 11, 2002, 02:59 PM
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I finally got some 3m automotive masking tape, so I will be trying
that one as well on the underside...

Gordon PC, yes the F-16 is pretty responsive with the taileron setup due to their relatively large surface, really no need for ailerons. I think Steve C uses them more or less exclusively as flapperons to slow it down on landings, it seemed to work very well.
Old Sep 11, 2002, 08:27 PM
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Jepe Reno Racer


Well, it looks like if I painted the Reno Racer in Dago Red colors it might look decently scale? What do you guys think? Does it have the lines of Dago Red or would it just look too far out of scale?
Thanks Joe

PS: I have the wings on my F16

Herb, your right, theres not a whole lot to do. But the finish will take a little while.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 12:13 AM
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JePe refers in the F-16 instructions to bright orange smoke pots - in the shape of sidewinders but without the winglets - which would be attached to the wingtip rails, thus increasing the visibility when the plane is coming at you.

Do this things really exist or are they just artistic licence? Does the F-16 indeed carry some sort of smoke devices on the wingtips?

From a thunderbird site: "...The space normally used for the gun on the F-16 is taken up by an oil tank which is used to make smoke during air show demonstrations. The Thunderbirds' F-16s have been..."
Last edited by Herb; Sep 12, 2002 at 01:17 PM.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 12:53 AM
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Smoke


Herb. they don't have smoke on the wingtips to the best of my knowledge. The Thunderbirds that I saw perform had smoke coming from the fuselage or engine exhaust itself but I don't remember ever seeing smoke from their wingtips. I also read that in the instructions and didn't know what he was talking about.
Joe
Old Sep 12, 2002, 10:59 AM
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Re: Smoke


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Herb. they don't have smoke on the wingtips to the best of my knowledge. The Thunderbirds that I saw perform had smoke coming from the fuselage or engine exhaust itself but I don't remember ever seeing smoke from their wingtips. I also read that in the instructions and didn't know what he was talking about.
Joe
He's probably refering to the original Demonstrator models,
any way the missle rail really helps orientaion as the wing is really thin. Even in the demostrator color scheme the wing disappears coming at you.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 12:45 PM
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Re: Smoke


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Herb. The Thunderbirds that I saw perform had smoke coming from the fuselage or engine exhaust itself ..Joe
The pictures I have seen clearly show the smoke coming out of the exhaust, but perhaps there was some special occasion in the past when they did indeed carry these pods, after all they are fully functional. I'll continue to look to see if I can locate some picture to support his description...



Btw here you can see that the pilot's helmet is red & white,



Last edited by Herb; Sep 12, 2002 at 12:57 PM.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 12:58 PM
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I once watched a F 16 performing a flight display during an air show ten years ago. The plane carried those smoke generators on its wingtips.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 01:15 PM
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like this
Old Sep 12, 2002, 01:18 PM
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it seems to be mostly be a euro thing. lots of pic's here

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...UTF-8%26sa%3DN
Old Sep 12, 2002, 01:18 PM
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Aha!

These definitely look like smoke pods to me... Very nice site http://www.steehouwer.com
Thanks Gregg



Last edited by Herb; Sep 12, 2002 at 01:26 PM.
Old Sep 12, 2002, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Aha! What do the pods look like?
fake missiles. you can see them in the above link............gregg
Old Sep 12, 2002, 01:22 PM
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The pods are called 'smokewinders' and look like sidewinders without the fins.
Old Sep 13, 2002, 02:50 PM
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Yesterday I've been playing around with some numbers... For the JePe F-16 the top speed v in level flight scales pretty well with

v = A P^(1/3)

where P is the power in, and A is a constant related mostly to the overall airframe drag coefficient. In any case a fit to the exponent gives about 0.35 which is close to the theoretically expected value of 1/3, based on thrust = drag at equlibrium.

Obviously these formulas are crudely approximate & just intended to play around, just curious how simple scaling can get you close to the real world data... On top of that, the data itself might not even be perfect...

For the JePe F-16 A=14+=1, while for the MiG-15 it's more like 12+-1, indicating a substantially overall lower drag for the F-16 (smaller wing, more slippery fuse) ...

This has a number of interesting consequences. One can speculate that it would "only" take ca. 2900 Watts to reach 200mph in level flight with the JePe airframe, the MiG-15 would need for the same feat as much as 4500 Watts (but presumably less so with a thinner wing).

The other amusing - but not unexpected - thing is that relative drag of f-16 vs stinger (ratios or A's = 21/14=2.8) is close to the ratio of approx total surface area (3.4).

A coefficient for some other airframes mostly mine (error ca. +-1) :

Eurofighter 2000 A=11
F/A-18 KC A=9
SU-27 A=9
MiG-29 A=10
Switchblade A=20

So the F/A-18 is kind of a drag queen in spite of its overall small size...

(Btw a Stinger would reach 200mph easily in level flight with "only" ca. 800 Watts..)
Old Sep 13, 2002, 02:57 PM
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And there will be a test on Monday! . cool info ............gregg
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:55 AM
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Herb's jepe visiting mig alley.
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:56 AM
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on the launcher
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:57 AM
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clearing the hook
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:57 AM
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flyby
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:58 AM
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sweet landing
Old Sep 15, 2002, 11:58 AM
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Short F-16 video from yesterday,

JePe F-16 video (Mpeg-1, 28 MB)

JePe F-16 video (windows media, 7 MB)

Fastest pass in the video is 197 km/h or 122 mph (level flight, without putting the nose down).
Last edited by Herb; Apr 16, 2003 at 04:34 PM.
Old Sep 15, 2002, 12:27 PM
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Sound! Its just what the doctor ordered.
Old Sep 16, 2002, 10:24 AM
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Congratulations


Hey Greg,
Don't you just love the way the Jepe F-16 handles,
Congratulations on a nice model.
Can hardly wait to build my A-4.
Bob
Old Sep 16, 2002, 11:21 AM
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Herb-Great video, love the sound. Does not take long for the F-16 to turn into a real small dot in the sky either. Gotta have a high Vis color scheme!

Gordon
Old Sep 16, 2002, 02:02 PM
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Cool video. That's the fastest little dot I've seen in a long time!

Are you bringing it down for JDATB II?

Daren
Old Sep 16, 2002, 04:49 PM
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Thanks for the coments! For this video Doug was nice enough to do the flying for me, and I was trying to follow him around with the video camera... As you can see it's already quite fast even at 1/4 throttle ... In any case I don't think it's as fast as Steve C's - but fast enough for me!!
Old Sep 16, 2002, 06:32 PM
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Lucky Doug! I know how tough it can be trying to follow a very fast jet in those tiny viewfinders as my video of Dan's Su-27 test flight will attest (and he was only on the take-off roll! ).

Daren
Old Sep 16, 2002, 10:56 PM
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El zippo


Well well it wasn't that faaast... I have a friend - he admits himself that he's a bit unusual at times - who's working on a somewhat super secret prototype designed to compete with the best (ie proton, vector, tensor etc).

I think he once whispered the codename to me, I believe it's called the Stinker but I'm not sure, and he just won't keep me in the loop anymore... Anyhow here's a spy photo of the very early prototype with loyal sidekick:
Last edited by Herb; Sep 17, 2002 at 01:48 PM.
Old Sep 16, 2002, 11:12 PM
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F16


Herb, that baby really hauls *** I cant wait to get mine done. I don''t know if it will be as fast as yours. I am using the Jepe 2.5 turn motor and 16 cells. But It should be fast.

Daren, I am planning to bring my F16 to Jet day part duex!! As soon as it done and painted, and decaled.

PS: It really is a beautiful plane and superb kit
Joe Soon to be a Viper Driver
Old Sep 18, 2002, 02:54 AM
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Sorry but!!


Sorry this is in response to a few pages back but..... A really cool trick I learned from the old painting cars days. When ever your doing stripes or 2 tone paint schemes or features, tape off your stripe or feature or whatever,then paint right on the tape and the area your changing colors in with the original color under tape. What this does is seals the tape to the original color and stops new color from bleeding through. Your gonna have some bleeding just when you do it this,way its the same color as whats underneath. You will get the cleanest most crisp lines ever.
Old Sep 18, 2002, 04:04 PM
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Thanks for your info!

Mirror to Susumo Kaikuchi's nice JePe F-16 video (level flight speed in video ca. 166 km/h or about 103 mph)

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors..._kaikuchi.mpeg (2.1 MB)

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors...kaikuchi1.mpeg (2.2 MB)

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors...kaikuchi2.mpeg (2.2 MB)

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors...kaikuchi3.mpeg (1.7 MB)

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors...kaikuchi4.mpeg (2.7 MB)
Last edited by Herb; Sep 24, 2002 at 05:22 PM.
Old Oct 08, 2002, 05:28 PM
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The measured level flight speed of about 122 mph on mine suggests v = 13 (power)^(1/3) which is close to what I had estimated before the first flight. With a slight dive it'll be a lot faster, 500 ft will give a rock an extra 130 mph ... .
Old Apr 16, 2003, 02:48 PM
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I just found this rather neat article on the German E-Zone,

http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/art...3-0030-00.html

comparing the all-moulded JePe F-16 flight characteristics to the El Bandito. Although it's in german, there are lots of fine photographs of the two models.

Both models are found of course to fly extremely well, the F-16 described in the article weighs rtf about 3.8 pounds with 18 CP 1700 cells and ca. 800 Watts wot, the El Ban about 7.4 pounds with 22 3000 cells and ca. 900 Watts (?) .

JePe's F-16 is described in the last paragraph as "flies like it had never done anything else before" .
Old Apr 16, 2003, 02:55 PM
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Jepe F16 and El Bandito


Well Herb, I guess I will have two planes that have extremely good flying manners and that are both fast. I agree the power difference is puzziling though But I will take what I can get when it comes too fast planes
JJ
Old Apr 16, 2003, 04:31 PM
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Re: Jepe F16 and El Bandito


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Well Herb, I guess I will have two planes that have extremely good flying manners and that are both fast. .. JJ
Joe did you fly them yet? How do they compare?
Old Apr 16, 2003, 04:45 PM
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F16 and El Bandito


Herb, I just received the RG version of the El Bandito and my new Schubler fan just about two weeks ago so I have not started building the plane. As for the F16 believe it or not its almost ready for paint I have been batteling health issues that have kept me from getting it painted but I am back to working on it now and hope to have it painted by the weekend. So I wont be able to compare them for a little bit but the Bandito is next up in the building que because its an RG plane. I need to fly at the glow field.
JJ
Old Apr 17, 2003, 12:04 PM
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Re: F16 and El Bandito


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
.... As for the F16 believe it or not its almost ready for paint ... JJ
How many cells did you opt for in the F-16? I suppose you have the 3-wind JePe SpiderFan. The CG recommended by Jepe is right on the money for the F-16...
Old Apr 17, 2003, 02:44 PM
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Jepe F16


Herb, I am going to run 14 Zapped CP 1700's too start off on the maiden flight. I have the 2.5 turn Jepe motor in my Jepe fan. And I will be using a Kontroniks 3-SL-70-6-18 ESC and a small 250 mahr receiver battery. I should have pictures of it with paint soon. I will let you know how she fly's. When its off my bench I will start my El Bandito.
JJ

PS: Thank You for the CG Tip its always nice too know that the posted CG is correct.
Last edited by Joe Elston; Apr 17, 2003 at 02:47 PM.
Old Jan 27, 2004, 01:58 PM
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Stuffed 16 GP cells into the F-16, had to make a doubled-up pack instead of just two sticks to get the CG right. Still needed an ounce of lead in the tail.

Test flight gave 5+mins at 120+mph (with a police helicopter hovering overhead ) , I think that's plenty for me ...
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:00 PM
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pic
Last edited by Herb; Jan 30, 2004 at 02:29 AM.
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:06 PM
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oh my!
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:06 PM
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Wow


Herb, Wow thats seriously fast. Is that landing gear fixed for flight or just for static display. It looks good I hope my 6S3P Tanics fit into mine I was going to use a 3-SL-70 but I am using a Hacker 77 instead because of the Tanics.
Joe
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Stuffed 16 GP cells into the F-16, had to make a doubled-up pack instead of just two sticks to get the CG right. Still needed an ounce of lead in the tail.
Hi Herb,

I have 16x Sanyo RC2400 in 2 rows (no double-up) and got the right CG. Maybe because i have the longer air intake in my F16 and you don't? Also i have the receiver battery, controller and receiver in the tail sections, this also could be the reason.

Oh yeah, and it sounds like this ...
http://www.stack.nl/~coen/RC-forum/download.php?id=394

Are the retracts real or do they stay out during flight?

Grtz,
Emile
Last edited by Emile; Jan 27, 2004 at 02:12 PM.
Old Jan 28, 2004, 02:08 PM
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Gregg, the power and weight are almost the same as on the old F-16 setup, but the flight duration is doubled to > 5 mins ... There's no noticeable change in the flight characteristics, but the landing approaches are less problematic due to the longer flight time.
Old Jan 28, 2004, 02:25 PM
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F16


Herb, is that landing gear functional or for static use only? It sure looks good on its feet. I have my Tanic packs coming for my F16 and its about ready too paint. I might take you up on the offer to come flying with you guys for the test flight if the offer is still good? You dont have the Jepe motor in the fan do you? If I remeber its a Hacker correct?
Thanks Joe

BTW the plane looks awesome!


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