Thread Tools
Jul 18, 2006, 07:02 AM
Registered User
Vipula AD's Avatar
Question

CC/Berg 4 with Micro Antenna


I recently bought a CC/Berg 4 (the one without the case) for use on a mini wing. The problem that I always have with receivers in small aircraft is the length of the antenna. In this case the wing has only a 22” wing span and I do not want any more than a couple of inches of the antenna sticking past the trailing edge of the wing. I have three options for routing the antenna on the wing and I have attached a sketch below. Option A and B uses the full length of the antenna. Option A forces the antenna to pass over or under all the power wires and electronics. Option B adds a few grams to one side of the airplane (it is a lot when the whole airplane only weighs 6 ozs) and does weaken that side of the wing (the wire is imbedded in the foam). Option C is using a Micro Antenna from either Azar or the RC Direct Sticky antenna.

My questions to you are:
1) Which of the three (or four considering the two different micro antennae) is better?
2) I know there is a reduction in range and performance when using the micro antennae, but what exactly is this reduction?

Your receiver is rated as a full rage receiver, which I assume would be about a mile. If I installed a micro antenna how much will that range be reduced to? I am hoping that since you are in the business of designing, developing and manufacturing receivers, you would have the necessary equipment to do the required range test.

I have used options A and B on some other manufacturers’ receivers as well as the older Berg 4 micro stamp and none really seems to work well. The Micro stamp did not experience any glitches but the receiver does not center the servos all the time or did not center the servos fast enough for the airplane, so I always had to make minor opposite stick corrections to get the airplane to fly straight. The same airplane (every thing but the RX remaining same) with a GWS RX would fly straight but would get hit with glitches.

Appreciate any help you can provide.

Vip.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Jul 18, 2006, 08:07 AM
MN WATTS Master
Vintauri's Avatar
I have used the azaar antenna on the bergs with great sucess. I have even used it on a small EDF wingish thing called the stealth-e. It's small but goes fast. It's been rock solid.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Jul 18, 2006, 09:18 AM
Castle's Chaos Corner
Bernie Wolfard's Avatar
Our Berg antenna is pre-base loaded. This means you can cut to the length you want without using a shorty antenna. Using one of the base loaded shorty antennas won’t hurt, it also doesn’t do much good. The length of the antenna is proportional to its range. Cut it in half range goes down by half, quarter length equals quarter range etc. This also works the other way, double antenna length, double range. The mile range with the standard 39 inch antenna is about right.

Bernie
Jul 18, 2006, 11:02 AM
Registered User
Vipula AD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintauri
I have used the azaar antenna on the bergs with great sucess. I have even used it on a small EDF wingish thing called the stealth-e. It's small but goes fast. It's been rock solid.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Thanks Steve,
I have two of the older ones (original Berg) and both are a little slow to come back to center. I also use an older berg 7, no problem with that.
Jul 18, 2006, 11:25 AM
Registered User
Vipula AD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard
Our Berg antenna is pre-base loaded. This means you can cut to the length you want without using a shorty antenna. Using one of the base loaded shorty antennas won’t hurt, it also doesn’t do much good. The length of the antenna is proportional to its range. Cut it in half range goes down by half, quarter length equals quarter range etc. This also works the other way, double antenna length, double range. The mile range with the standard 39 inch antenna is about right.

Bernie
Thank you Bernie,

Does this mean Option A or B would be preferable? Is A better than B? Is the range based on the antenna being installed straight or just the total length of the wire irrespective of the installation.

Option B shows the full length antenna (39") but it zig zags to accommodate the total length within the half span wing, so the distance between start to end is about 11". How does this affect the range. Sorry about all the questions but I would like to get things a little bit clearer.

Option C is clear, if I have approximately 9" of antenna wire with the Azar mico installed my range would be approximately 1200ft.

Thanks again for your help.

By the way I compared the old and the new Micro stamps and the new one does not show any lag on centering whereas the lag in the old one is now obvious.

Vip.
Jul 18, 2006, 11:40 AM
Castle's Chaos Corner
Bernie Wolfard's Avatar
Vip,

I just run the antenna out the end of a wing or the back of a small plane and cut it off where it exits. The size of the plane determines the length of the antenna as the small planes have to be flow closer in.

But if I was going to keep the full length antenna I just run it to the end of the wind and let the end dangle. If you want it inside the wing either B or C will work but keep the antenna as far away from the motor/motor wires/ESC as possible. The antenna doesn’t need to be straight, just don’t let it cross itself. If it crosses the point where it crosses is the length of the antenna.

Bernie
Jul 18, 2006, 12:11 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard
Our Berg antenna is pre-base loaded. This means you can cut to the length you want without using a shorty antenna. Using one of the base loaded shorty antennas won’t hurt, it also doesn’t do much good. The length of the antenna is proportional to its range. Cut it in half range goes down by half, quarter length equals quarter range etc. This also works the other way, double antenna length, double range. The mile range with the standard 39 inch antenna is about right.

Bernie
Hello Bernie, it has been my understanding that the Azarr retains close to 90 percent of the range of a standard length antenna. If what you are saying is correct, the 6 inch version should only be good for 16.5 percent range (or so). Something does not make sense. I have Azarrs on all my Bergs, I guess if I don't need them, I will just cut the stock atenna's and give it a whirl But..... the numbers you give and the numbers Azarr is giving don't come out the same I guess need more info on the Azarrs.

I just read the front page on Azarrs site and he states a 15 percent reduction from the standard Antenna

http://www.ecubedrc.com/


Mike
Last edited by power; Jul 18, 2006 at 12:22 PM.
Jul 18, 2006, 12:35 PM
Registered User
Vipula AD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard
Vip,

I just run the antenna out the end of a wing or the back of a small plane and cut it off where it exits. The size of the plane determines the length of the antenna as the small planes have to be flow closer in.

But if I was going to keep the full length antenna I just run it to the end of the wind and let the end dangle. If you want it inside the wing either B or C will work but keep the antenna as far away from the motor/motor wires/ESC as possible. The antenna doesn’t need to be straight, just don’t let it cross itself. If it crosses the point where it crosses is the length of the antenna.

Bernie
Thank you very much for the prompt reply. This explains what I can and cannot do with a CC/Berg RX.

The airplane that I am using this on is small, but the slowest one was radar clocked at 65mph while the radar was only able to pickup the fastest one at 88mph at partial throttle before its total demise after a glitch. This is 97 and 128 feet per second respectively, so you can see why I am also trying to look for the most range and best stability in the smallest package. Trailing the antenna out the back at that speed upsets the handling. It is a double edged sward for me I think.

By the way I love your speed controllers, I must have about 40 now from 7 to 60 amps. Are you guys planning on supplying the Mamba MAXX motor for airplane applications?

Vip.
Jul 18, 2006, 03:25 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
VIP, I have been using my Bergs in very fast Nano jets and they just about speck out, the Azarr antennas have been working super for me. I would put them in anything I fly.



Mike
Jul 18, 2006, 03:32 PM
Registered User
I've always used the old bergs with azarrs, and had the least radio problems of anyone I know.

Are the new bergs dfferent, in handling the antenna, than the old bergs?

With the old bergs, the azarr works fantastic, but I'm a bit nervous now, about changes in the new bergs...
Jul 19, 2006, 01:36 AM
Permanently Banned
Larry3215's Avatar
Me too! I have two Azar's mounted on new Berg 4's. Should I take them off and use a straight wire cut short???

Larry
Jul 19, 2006, 01:37 AM
Permanently Banned
Larry3215's Avatar
If Im doing the math correctly - a 6" Azar on a new Berg will cut range from 5280 feet down to 812 feet!!

Larry
Jul 19, 2006, 05:21 AM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
That was my concern with using the numbers that Bernie gave us. I think there is a bit more to it. BTW, I us the Azarr on my "new" Bergs and I fly a lot more than 812 ft out I get good range checks as well as glitch free operation, so far . We need some more info.


Mike
Jul 19, 2006, 06:53 AM
Registered User
Vipula AD's Avatar
Thanks guys for the replys and the additional questions.

For my application I see that if I cut the antenna the length will be about 11 inches, so my range is about 1480ft to each side, but if I installed the Azar, I get an 8" antenna (dont forget the 2" of the original to which you install the 6" Azar) I get about 1080ft. This is not really bad, considering it is actually 3 football field lengths to each side of you.

I looked at some of the videos that I had taken and I noticesd that I am usually turning base (turning back) after about 6 to 8 seconds past the center on the faster airplanes. At about 100ft/second average this is about 600 - 800 feet on either side, which makes sence why a GWS R4P has no problem operating in the little wings.

What would be ideal is for Castle Creations to test one of the micro stamps with a micro antenna inside their EM isolation chamber and give us some idea as to the percentage loss in range. I will even volunteer to send them two RXs, one with an Azar and the other with a Sticky antenna attached to it, not that they do not have enough RXs with them.

Vip.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Berg 5 DSPII with Micro Antenna Tommy D Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 6 Jun 28, 2005 05:33 PM
gws 4ch pico fm rx with micro antenna & xstal rcaddition Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 4 Dec 30, 2004 05:07 PM
FS: Berg-4*DSP Micro Stamp Reciever, New in Package $40 Invertedflyby Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 4 Aug 17, 2004 04:56 PM
FS: New Berg 4 DSP Micro Stamp Rx Sonic1 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 6 Mar 29, 2004 06:11 PM
FS: Berg-4 DSP Micro Stamp RX JohnM Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 10 Feb 04, 2004 07:10 AM