40" & 20" Dassault Rafale - Semi Shockflyer style - Page 4 - RC Groups
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Jan 04, 2009, 07:45 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar

I think the 40" Rafale needs a motor with 75-100 gram weight and around 1000 kV. Best prop would be an APC-E 9x9 which should pull about 25A on a 3S lipo.


In my case (20" Rafale) the (light) battery is placed at the front, underneath the canopy. I think in your case, with the relatively light motor and heavy lipo, the lipo can be placed more aft. Which is nice, because the length of the motor/battery wires could be causing problems.

I think the center of gravity is 830mm from the nose on the 40" version.

Program: www.drivecalc.de
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Jan 04, 2009, 09:46 AM
Registered User
Sartor's Avatar
nice project, thanks a lot for the plans
Jan 04, 2009, 12:24 PM
Registered User
Prop-er, thanks a lot for all this information, well I think i will buy a more powerfull motor; for the ESC and the battery, no problem, I allready have it...

I will inform you and send some Fotos when finished !
Jan 07, 2009, 03:29 AM
Registered User
I am extremely interested in the software used in designing this plane! Can you tell me what you used??!!
Jan 19, 2009, 11:59 AM
The VF4 Lightning III Project
Muzzy_II's Avatar
Hi there,
I was hoping you could give some examples of electrical equipment that would suit the 20" version. Motor, servo's etc
Great plans and looks to be a good plan also.

Jan 19, 2009, 02:59 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
A 25 gram 1600kV brushless on a APC-e 6x5,5, running on a 3S 20C lipo of about 500 mAh, a 10A ESC on a four channel lightweight receiver and two 5gr servo's is all you need. Shouldn't cost you much more than 50 bucks if you shop in China.
Feb 14, 2009, 08:04 AM
Registered User
Hey Prop-er,

Thanks for the great plans. I am building the 40" version. Am I missing something or, is the wing section bigger than a sheet of FFF and it needs to be made in 2 parts? I was thinking of slicing it at mid-chord and gluing it together with a full-width CF tube spar. What do you think? I would think that 40" wings with no spar would be quite floppy, no?

Thanks again,
Feb 14, 2009, 08:20 AM
Registered User
pval3's Avatar

sheets n spars

Hey there adam

I have this plane on the "back burner" right now but have run into this problem in the past with other designs...esp with the depron stuff!

Cut and butt two pieces of FF together to make the proper sized sheet..make sure you get a nice square edge to ensure a nice glue line and use wax paper to keep it from sticking to your building surface when you are gluing!

I like to use a tool I picked up at Michaels crafts for cutting picture matting with a straight edge to guide the process.

I have found that the span needs a nice spar, I like the 5mm light weight tubes run tip to tip as close to the forward tip of the wing tip as possible...

be careful though . . . cg can be effected if you are not careful before you cut and glue.

I had a mirage 2000 a few years ago that I had to switch to a 1/8 tube with 2 flat .5 mm X 4 mm placed vertical 4" in front of and on the trailing edge to make it resist flexing.

I think that I could have done away with the mid spar .5mm flat spar if I had left the film on the ff... hind sight is 20/20!
Feb 16, 2009, 05:40 AM
To Build? or Build Another?
genetix's Avatar
Thanks fo those planss from me too! I have been looking for big jet foamie for a while and most of my fleet include delta wings so this plane is nearly perfect. Im going to build the 40" XL version. Whats that you ask? Print it tiled on letter paper, insert tiled papers to the copy machine at work and enlarge to tabloid (11x17) to make a ??" Version of Proper's Rafale. I think it will be some where around the 50-60" wing span.

I just got a brand new 2700 kv motor that is supposed to run 100" mph on a 5x5 apc prop, along with 3s2p 4400 25c batteries so this is the power system... I think i need a better amp though, my cheap hobbycity 40amp gets wayyyyy too hot to keep that current!

Well, this postpones the big project... again... (97" Hercules from elmers foam board)
Feb 16, 2009, 10:09 AM
Malaysian Flier
Hello.. I'm trying to build 20' but don't know what the cg.. please..

Feb 16, 2009, 11:01 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
20' ??? They seem to get bigger and bigger...

Feb 16, 2009, 11:09 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Originally Posted by raceradam
Hey Prop-er,

Thanks for the great plans. I am building the 40" version. Am I missing something or, is the wing section bigger than a sheet of FFF and it needs to be made in 2 parts? I was thinking of slicing it at mid-chord and gluing it together with a full-width CF tube spar. What do you think? I would think that 40" wings with no spar would be quite floppy, no?
Hi Adam,

The 40" would definitely require some stiffening of the wings. I guess a 4mm CF tube would be a good start. I've found that the nose is quite brittle, and must be reinforced to withstand nose-down landings. A pair of CF rods along the fuse (from nose to about halfway the fuse) should be enough to keep this machine in one piece on one of your bad flying days.

Ahh, if I only had time to finish the repairs on my little Rafale...
(I know, it's a priority thing)
Feb 16, 2009, 07:36 PM
To Build? or Build Another?
genetix's Avatar
I have so many parts and power systems from over time in this hobby and i feel so bad not using them. they cost a lot of money. SO micheals had a sale and foamboards were $1! I got 20 of them and now I have plans for 4 planes including this one (yes, I spent a lot of money "learning" this hobby...) but Im so excited I think i might dump the current one and start this... BIG FOAM JET.. FINALLY!! Thanks Proper!

Question: Has anyone tried or has a theory about KF Airfoils for this plane? Proper have you tried / had any success on an airfoil? Thanks!
Feb 17, 2009, 02:14 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Well, if you build according to plan, the wing will have a really nicely shaped airfoil. During the short time I flew mine, I noticed good flying manners. (come to think about it, I never really flew something that had bad manners)(well, apart from the Hydrofoam, then)

The small one will normally have a higher wing loading than the big one. Still I was able to slow down to walking speed, and accelerate to 80 km/u in no time, without trimming. It all felt pretty straightforward, no bad habits. Stalls come nice, straight an easy. Stall telltales are very pronounced.
Feb 19, 2009, 11:16 PM
To Build? or Build Another?
genetix's Avatar
thanks for the info, I hadnt noticed in the plans that there is an airfoil... come to think of it, I havent seen a build log for this plane at all... Maybe my project will be worth posting

Colors decided (for now...): white fuse, blue wings, blue tipped tail and silver/gray nose. what do u think?

Im wondering if I might take on adjusting for some thrust vectoring... Hmm....

Thanks for the info proper!

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